Feb. 14, 2023

START WITH ANDOR: Making a Fan (with Maya Chupkov aka @ProudStutter)

START WITH ANDOR: Making a Fan (with Maya Chupkov aka @ProudStutter)

What happens if your first Star Wars is ANDOR?

In our second special episode for Star Wars Podcast Day 2023 (Podcast Week?), Josh and Bracey welcome returning guest MAYA CHUPKOV of the phenomenal podcast @ProudStutter to discuss her first foray into the Star Wars universe...ANDOR. Is she a fan?

Predictably, we continue to gush about Andor but also try to figure out what impressions it makes on someone new to the Star Wars universe.

Check out Maya's podcast at proudstutter.com @ProudStutter on Instagram: instragram.com/proudstutter @ProudStutter on Twitter: twitter.com/ProudStutter @ProudStutter on TikTok: tiktok.com/@proudstutter

Listen to our first episode with Maya: FLUENT COMMUNICATION: What I Have in Common with Darth Vader and Mace Windu (with Maya Chupkov)

TRANSCRIPTS AT trashcompod.com

RATE US podchaser.com/trashcompod

FOLLOW US instragram.com/trashcompod & twitter.com/trashcompod1

EMAIL US trashcompod@gmail.com


[00:00:00] JOSH: Welcome to Trash Compactor. I'm Josh, still celebrating Star Wars Podcast Day 2023 with another special episode. Outside our regular season, though, the actual Star Wars Podcast Day was February 7th. Happy birthday again, dad. They're celebrating the whole week. So we're doing another installment, and it's a special one because not only am I joined today by Bracey. I am also thrilled to welcome a returning guest, the host of the award-winning Apple New and Noteworthy podcast, Proud Stutter, Maya Chupkov. Maya, welcome back to Trash Compactor.

[00:00:33] MAYA: Hello. Happy to be here again.

[00:00:37] JOSH: Yeah, we're really psyched to have you regular listeners of the show might remember Maya from the, the episode we did on stuttering in media and podcasting Trash Compactor, episode 23. Um, and in that episode, uh, Maya, you mentioned you were not a Star Wars fan, right?

[00:00:54] MAYA: Well, I wouldn't say I wasn't a fan. I just hadn't ever watched Star Wars. It was just always something that was over there. . Um, yeah.

[00:01:08] JOSH: So, but you did say that you were curious to get into it, uh, because I forget how you put it exactly, but like, you felt like, like it was the kind of thing you would, you would get into

[00:01:20] MAYA: Yeah, I'm like a huge nerd when it comes to like fantasy and sci-fi. but sometimes it takes me a while to get really deep in the lore and so like with Game of a Thrones, it took me a while with Lord of the Rings. I was really young. Came out and I was scared of it, and then I got into that. And so Star Wars was just something I never thought I'd get into, and then I watched Andor, and everything changed

[00:01:54] JOSH: you mentioned you had watched, maybe you had watched, um, episode one at some point in your life,

[00:02:00] MAYA: I did, but it was very, like, it was just kind of, it wasn't a very, um, I wasn't all there. I was kind of just like, oh, okay, it's on. Like I'll just watch it, I guess.

[00:02:13] JOSH: No. Yeah, no, that's not, you don't have to explain not being drawn into Star Wars from, from episode one. Um, but as someone who was like not super into Star Wars, beyond just sort of like the ambient awareness of it. what did you make , of, Andor?

[00:02:29] MAYA: I loved it. Like, I feel like I loved the, it was just such a good show, like even beyond Star Wars, just the characters and the message and how all these different arcs of the season. Connected together, but they, they, they were also like their own mi mini, um, se seasons too. I just yeah, I loved everything about it.

[00:02:56] Like when it, there's a good show. It's hard to not love it, so. and it was my favorite show because every year I do like a top 10 shows. Cause I love TV and, Andor was number one. And people were like, what's Andor like, what? Why is it your number one? And I was just like, you're just gonna have to watch it.

[00:03:19] It's so good. So yeah.

[00:03:21] JOSH: Yeah, cuz I saw when you tweeted that your top 10 lists of shows and I saw that that was number one. And that made me very happy. Uh, and as, uh, Bracey will attest to like, one of the things about Andor that we have, have been discussing, like in the context of. You know, also being Star Wars fans, you know, I think we occupy an interesting space where like we are Star Wars fans, but we are also just, you know, appreciators of film and TV in general.

[00:03:56] So what was is super interesting is that like this is the first piece of Star Wars media. I think possibly since the original movie or maybe Mandalorian that like is like just on its own merits, aside from its association with a larger fandom or a larger lore, is just like fantastic top to bottom tv.

[00:04:23] It's like, whether it's the writing or the story or the structure of that story or the, the way it's shot, like, you know, it's just really, really good. And it kind of puts us in a weird spot because like, one of the things that at least I struggle with is like, the question arise. It's like, is it too good to be Star Wars in a weird way?

[00:04:48] Uh, um, I don't know. Uh, Bracey, what do you think about, about that?

[00:04:52] BRACEY: Yeah. What I really appreciate that show, uh, is that it, it dares to invest in the characters. And it dares to invest and take the time, uh, uh, to invest in the environment and the context so you can really, over time, um, uh, appreciate the, the, the bigger movements that happen. In the show, um, which I feel like happens every three episode, like the, like there are kind of these mini arcs that are happening, uh, that lead to the grander, uh, arc over the course of the entire show.

[00:05:29] And I just, Love that they dared to do that. Like that they, because it's not, uh, what I feel like is the standard where you, like, you're, you're expect you need, uh, you need some kind of fireworks. Like every, every episode something needs to go happen, like the big bad or whatever the case may be. Like they actually take the time to be like, Hey, these first few episodes, like, you may not understand why you're watching this show.

[00:05:56] You'll definitely understand by episode six and by episode 12, like you'll be freaking out. I'm sure. . I dunno. Um, yeah.

[00:06:06] JOSH: Yeah. Well, well out of curiosity. Maya, like, so when, when Andor premiered they released the first three episodes, you know, at the same time? I think probably, uh, because of what Bracey you just said, and like you said, like the structure of the season was, there were really these like three or four episode mini story arcs and I think, you know, the beginning of it was, sort of a slow.

[00:06:30] process of, setting up the world and, you know, moving the pieces into, place. And I'm wondering, as someone who was not invested going in, how many episodes did it take for the show to really like get its hooks in you?

[00:06:47] MAYA: So I went into Andor already knowing it was getting good reviews, even from people that weren't necessarily Star Wars fans. So I went into Tuit, kind of, kind of knowing that I'd enjoy it. like, I'm the type of TV watcher where, , like I kind of finish shows even if I'm not like in love with it.

[00:07:13] I just kind of like to, to fit finish shows, so I knew I'd at least finish it. , but the, the moment I was intro introduced to b2, emo, I think is the name I was sold. I was like, oh my God, I love this robot so much, . And yeah, so after being introduced to, and I think that was really early,

[00:07:40] JOSH: Yeah.

[00:07:41] MAYA: that was like the first episode.

[00:07:42] JOSH: yeah, it's definitely in the first

[00:07:44] MAYA: I was stole. I was like, as long as B2 was in this show, I'm all in

[00:07:53] JOSH: So then, so then you must have loved, I think it was like toward the end of the season when, um, the Fiona Shaw character has passed away and, uh, he's all, he's all emo about it, for lack of a better, of a better of a better word. Like he Like, so, so, so droids are a thing in Star Wars and like you know, usually, they use how a character treats droids as sort of a comment on like whether like this is a good character or a bad character.

[00:08:21] It's like, you know, like if they take the time, uh, to treat a droid, with a modicum of respect or Like with some consideration for their quote unquote feelings. but that said, like, I was shocked how, how affected I was, , by his grieving process for that character. Like one of the things that the show does so well, Is that they take star Wars tropes and do like the most amazing version of it that I've ever seen.

[00:08:49] which is just like, again, it just, I mean, I guess it's not, it's not really a, a mystery. It's just like a really well-written, well-acted well everything show. Like, I think that's really all it comes down.

[00:09:02] BRACEY: Yeah. I had my defenses up when I first saw the droid because. I, I, you know, I, I've seen we've, I've seen so many droids and so many versions by this point, after seeing so many, uh, uh, different Star Wars properties and, um, I Oh, it getting peed on in the beginning and then shocking them. I was like, are they going for like a kind of Artoo-Detoo kind of thing here?

[00:09:26] Like, what's, what's the, what's the deal? And so my, my defenses were up. , uh, uh, by half. I, I'd say like halfway through the series, I was like, oh, this character's brilliant. Like, this character's like they, they did a really good job. Like, especially me going back and starting to watch the episodes again for the podcast, um, I, I realized that like, oh no, they're actually developing a character here and, and like they're taking the time for, for us to care about this, uh, uh, this little droid, which is fantastic.

[00:09:55] And then it w it really pays off towards, In that moment that you were talking about,

[00:09:59] MAYA: Yeah, the saddest, one of the saddest moments was when one, one of the, um, I forgot what it was, but like one of the enemy people like pushes. B2, while, what's her name was giving her

[00:10:14] speech, Marva, and I was just like, I got so like mad at that. I was like, no, not b2. Like yeah, . That was, that stuck with me.

[00:10:26] JOSH: you actually also, you pointed this out, to me, Maya, like not, to make this whole, conversation about this. But you mentioned that, uh, uh, B2 had a stutter when he was on low power.

[00:10:37] MAYA: Oh, I didn't realize it was when he was on low power. I thought it was just all the time.

[00:10:41] JOSH: maybe it was all the time. I'm not sure.

[00:10:43] But, um, one of the striking things about Andor and that, uh, you also mentioned this to Maya, was the way that it renders this world and this conflict, like there are so many different threads, like so many different stories going on that each depict different parts of a larger struggle and like, , you know, Maya, I know that you're interested in, political action and building movements and I think this show was really striking in how, you know, usually in something like Star Wars, where it's like ostensibly, a fight against a tyrannic empire or whatever.

[00:11:20] You know, they really focus on the, like handful of larger than life heroes at the center of the action. And like, you know, what these individuals do, will determine the fate of the galaxy or whatever. But what is so, I think refreshing about, Andor is that Uses that same sci-fi fantasy setting and that same conflict, but it's really multifaceted in how it depicts all the different, components and concerns and figures that, make a movement,

[00:11:56] And, you know, Maya, I don't know, like your sort of ambient familiarity with like Star Wars as like a, cultural object. but like, it's like about, you know, heroes and good guys and bad guys and like, it's really the individual story against like the, the backdrop of the larger story and sort of everything kind of revolves around what they do. And I just, thought that this show really, gave you the bird's eye view or like a more like global view of what was going on.

[00:12:25] Sort of at every level, like whether it was like, the real died in the wool revolutionaries or the politicians who have to, follow certain decorum or the people like, Andor who were just like, I mean, at the beginning of the show when we'd meet him, like, I don't think he.

[00:12:42] Gives a shit about, fighting for freedom or fighting for, for principle. I think he's just, you know, trying to get through his day. And I think that's one of the really fascinating things about the show is that like the guy at the center, know, he's not, and I don't mean this in like a negative sense, but like, he's not special. He's just a guy.

[00:13:01] MAYA: Yeah.

[00:13:03] JOSH: and, um, well, I guess like what do you think of, Cassian as a character

[00:13:07] MAYA: Yeah, I, I loved just like his transformation of like, him just doing things just so he could survive and like took things, it seemed like day by day and he had his like core people that he like loved and was trying. Protect and that's it. Like he didn't care about this like, larger purpose. Like he only, um, saw that.

[00:13:38] Um, and then I think by the end, you know, there's all these like little pieces that just add up and like one of 'em in particular is the, um, is the man, uh, is Nemic manifesto and like, How that kind of ends up being. Cuz I, I, how I, how I watched Andora is I would, um, li listen to like a recap of it afterwards where they'd kind of co connect it to like other Star Wars things.

[00:14:17] So I c kind of learned about the world as I went. And so I know this man in manifesto ends up being like the man manifesto for. Revolution, is it called? Or the revolt? I don't know.

[00:14:31] JOSH: The rebellion or

[00:14:32] MAYA: the, the rebellion. Yes. And so I, I just thought it was really cool to just kind of see how all these things had added up to where at the end it was like, you know, like he wasn't able to like, Protect Marva, for example.

[00:14:52] And so he really took what she said to to heart about joining the rebellion and then him join joining it. And so, yeah. And. and they definitely spoiled a lot of stuff for me. Just stuff that happens in the, the, the future. But I don't mind that because this is a, this is supposed to be an additive thing where um, you already know what's gonna happen.

[00:15:23] JOSH: Yeah. No, no. Totally like, like I find that to be very interest. , um, because I watch shows in a similar way. Like, like especially, when it's something that has kind of an established lore, you know, sometimes I want to watch the thing so I can read about the thing

[00:15:40] BRACEY: I, I had a question on that, uh, because I was curious, like, uh, uh, when you were watching the episode, um, uh, did you feel like you needed more context or that you were missing out? Or did you generally you, you felt pretty

[00:15:55] MAYA: Yeah, yeah, I, I didn't really mind that. I didn't know. like I felt like I wasn't missing anything while I was watching Andor, and what was great about these recap? Well, there's one in the Ringer podcast. Oh my God. I'm obsessed with them. Oh my God. So they helped me just kind of recap episode and then they would like also talk about things that happened in other Star Wars.

[00:16:23] And so I felt like I was connecting the dots, I was going and it just made me. Um, like I think it would've been just as enjoyable if I didn't have the recaps, but it just added another layer of like, oh my gosh. Like it, it was kind of like seeing it in a new light after watching it the first time.

[00:16:46] BRACEY: That's awesome. By the end, uh, uh, like the post credit scene, they have like this big reveal. Um, uh, uh, did that mean anything to you when you watched it? Like, did it feel like a bump, bump, bum? They were showing that, uh, the thing that they had been working on and the prison camp was actually part of, uh,

[00:17:04] MAYA: Oh wait, I didn't see that.

[00:17:07] BRACEY: Oh, I, well, I wrote that. Then I'm, there's a post credit scene and, uh, I recommend you go check it out. I'm curious to hear what you think about that. Um, I, I don't know.

[00:17:21] JOSH: that actually is very interesting and. I don't think it matters if you see it or not, I think like that's the most, directly connected to the rest of Star Wars mythos, which is why it's like a post credit scene, uh, because it's not at all integral, to understanding anything you have just seen.

[00:17:39] So from listening to the Ringer recaps, like you probably know that, that this whole series is kind of a spinoff of a spinoff. It's like from Rogue One, this movie that came out in, in, in 2016, That ends like, you know, 30 seconds before the original Star Wars from 1977. And this series is sort of a prequel to that. So it's actually, now that I'm saying it, it's like a really unusual way to tell a story. It's like a, it's like a prequel to a prequel, to a . Um, and none of them were the Star Wars prequels.

[00:18:13] these two prequels that we're talking about.

[00:18:15] BRACEY: The end before that and before that, it's like

[00:18:18] JOSH: Yeah. No. Uh, but I'm wondering if you, um, have thought about watching Rogue One or if you're going to wait until the second season of Andor is done.

[00:18:30] MAYA: Yeah, I keep going back and forth about that. Um, I'm not very compelled to watch Ro Rogue one right now. . Um, not that I don't want to, I just don't have that like urge yet. Um, but what was helpful, what one of the things that stuck out to me in the re cap was learning. Caspian does eventually die because of something around the, he was like trying to do something for the r r rebellion and we're intro introduced to, to him as like very like jaded and like really like, uh, I for not jaded, but just like very rough around the edges I guess.

[00:19:16] And so that was really interesting to. Think of him in the, the future, like after like years of being in this rebellion. I'm sure it's like weighs a lot on you. Um, but yes, but I think cuz I've, I am a big p Pedro, pa Pascal fan. Who I've been watching The Last Of Us, and so that is making me wanna watch Mandalorian now So that might be my next Star Wars venture.

[00:19:48] JOSH: no. Yeah, I would, I mean, you know, I think Mandalorian like its tone and its vibe I think is much closer to what most of Star Wars is like. Would you agree with that? Bracey?

[00:20:00] BRACEY: Yeah. Yeah. It's more of a spaghetti western kind of feeling meets mid Star Wars universe, I feel.

[00:20:08] JOSH: Yeah. but just also it just like, it's a little more, um, you know, what's the word? It's like,

[00:20:14] BRACEY: It's closer to the star, the original Star Wars vibe. By

[00:20:17] far than, than than and or Yeah. By by far.

[00:20:21] JOSH: Um, so, yeah, I mean, I would hold off on watching Rogue One if you don't, have a burning desire to go out and watch it immediately because I mean, like, you kind of intuited, like it really doesn't matter you know what happens later or not. Like, so basically how it's gonna work is unfortunately there's only gonna be one more season of, Andor, and that from everything that, , the creators have said will lead like right into Rogue One, the movie, which leads right into the original Star Wars.

[00:20:53] So, so if you're game, I would love for this to be kind of a long-term project where we check in with you

[00:20:59] MAYA: Yeah.

[00:21:00] JOSH: you know, and we get your point of view as someone who, you know, again, has no real investment in Star Wars that exists already. I, because like, I mean, again, like I love Andor so much it's really great that someone that is not already invested in Star Wars, like feels the same.

[00:21:20] about this show because it just like, I think it just speaks for itself.

[00:21:25] MAYA: Yeah, and it made me, it made me tap into like, other things that I ha that I wasn't planning on watching, like after I watched Andor, or like as I was watching Andor I was like, oh, I need to watch Rings of Power and I need to watch. Um, The, Game of Throne, House of Dragons, and now I'm reading the Lord of the Rings books, which I never thought I'd ever read.

[00:21:54] And so I'm like, Andor really made me like wanna just like go nerd out on like fantasy and sci-fi stuff. Um, and I think also just listening to The Ringer really helps you. like you're watching the, the show on your own. And then you have these friends who are like helping you through like the lore and like, stuff you may not know, like the, The Last of Us is a perfect example.

[00:22:22] Never saw the, or I never played at the game, but I'm able to watch the show without having that. And then they have folks that have played the game kind. Talk about that. So it's just, it's great just, just sinking your teeth into these worlds, I guess, in that way.

[00:22:45] JOSH: what do you think that is? Because I have that same, you know, desire like for context and for learning about stuff. Like, what do you think that is? Like, you know, it kind of strikes me that this is a way of watching TV that I think is relatively new. Like, I don't really know of any other. TV shows in history where it's like, okay, you watch it and then you immediately like go to, some other, group of, commentators to like learn how it, connects to larger lores of the, I mean, I mean, it's a whole new way of like engaging with, media, right?

[00:23:21] BRACEY: It feels like, uh, what they were trying to push when transmedia was like a big . It was like the buzzword for television.

[00:23:29] JOSH: I've been thinking about that for weeks. Like, it's like, you know, trans media was like a big thing like, 10 years ago.

[00:23:35] BRACEY: Yeah. But it couldn't, it couldn't grow. Like it couldn't, they, they were trying to force it somehow and it just never, it never happened. And it sounds like it just organically grew into that.

[00:23:44] JOSH: Yeah. so Maya, I don't know if you've ever heard of the term transmedia storytelling, but like a decade ago, it was like The next big thing, it was like a buzzword. It's essentially like s the story happens in many different mediums and they all kind of inform and like feed each other.

[00:24:00] So like you would make a show, but it would also be a video game. And what happened in the video game would matter to what happens in the show. And then what happens in the show would also be in a series of novels or comics and it would all sort of, Like all tied together. but with that it was like trying to create it from zero, see it seems like it's happening organically now where it's like these things exist already. We're doing this thing and it just so happens to connect with all these other things. It seems like, it seems like that's what's going on. No, but yeah, I've been thinking of trans media.

[00:24:33] For like, the last, month or so, especially because transmedia, the term has very different connotations I think now than it did even a decade ago.

[00:24:44] BRACEY: Yeah. We're dating ourself with that term now.

[00:24:46] JOSH: no, I know. It's just like, how could you even say the term transmedia?

[00:24:49] Not think that it had something to do with like media created by trans people.

[00:24:54] BRACEY: Yeah.

[00:24:55] JOSH: Right.

[00:24:57] MAYA: Yeah, I think never hearing that, but that concept before, I feel like it failed because I think with people, they like with people consuming content, they like to be in control and so like, Someone might be really into TV shows but not into to reading and they don't, don't wanna feel bad for like, not.

[00:25:23] Consuming everything. Like for me, I will never play last of us. I just, not that I'm against video games, I just know it will consume my life and I just don't have time. So, , um, it's nice to be able to like still consume media and then having this other podcast just like fill it in for me without having to make that big in. That makes sense

[00:25:54] JOSH: No, completely. No, and I think that that also, you . Know, it kind of has to do with This other thing I find really fascinating, or I guess ironic maybe, is that, Tony Gilroy's, the, creator showrunner of Andor, he similarly was not at all invested in Star Wars or like the Star Wars mythology, and he only really, got excited about it when he realized the potential.

[00:26:20] tell a really unique and interesting story about revolution without having to worry about, the connotation that it would have, by having it happen in the real world. It's like, That's the reason the show is so good, because I think he was like, no, no, no.

[00:26:37] Like there's a story that I care about that I want to tell, not for the sake of Star Wars. It's like, here's an opportunity to do something that I think, you know, is something I can really sink my teeth into and gets me excited. That just so happens to have an opportunity, to be told. In this fictional context.

[00:26:58] BRACEY: uh, Kind of on that, that note, we had a, a little bit of a back and forth on our first Andor um, uh, podcast about the character of Cassian when you're first introduced in the very first kind of, um, Kerfuffle that he, he, he, he gets into, uh, uh, I'm very curious, what, uh, what is your take on, uh, the introduction to that character?

[00:27:19] How do you feel that he falls on the moral spectrum when you're first introduced? Um,

[00:27:27] MAYA: Yeah, I, what I really liked about this show is like, it's very clear, like, yeah, my first in church. Introduction to Cassian was that he wasn't a good guy, . Um, but I really liked how the show really, um, it's, they don't really have clear cut. Like you're a villain, you're a hero. Like even Lutheran who's like this person that's supposed to be, you know, for the, this, this greater. Purposed overthrow this evil pyre. He had some very villain vibes sometimes. And so, and then I think, um, even with like the guy in the prison that we meet, like he, when we first meet him, what, what's his name?

[00:28:33] The head

[00:28:33] of the.

[00:28:34] JOSH: Keno, Loy.

[00:28:35] MAYA: Yeah, like he, he gi gives off very villain vibes at first, and then he ends up being like the friend and like helping everyone escape.

[00:28:44] So I loved how, Andor were so, like, they really showed that no one is really purely evil or purely good. It's like we're all, we all have some bad and good in us.

[00:29:00] JOSH: Yeah, I mean, to kind of expand on that, I think what I got out of the show was that a lot of what we do, we do in response to, like the larger institutional systems that we are embedded in. So if like, you know, circumstances are such that in order to save myself, like I have to shoot a security guard in cold blood or like if I'm Lutheran, where like, you know, he has that phenomenal speech or, soliloquy, if you wanna call it that.

[00:29:29] Where he is, like, what have I sacrificed? peace of mind, like, you know, joy, happiness, it's like, you know, all that stuff.

[00:29:33] Like he realized that someone has to do something about this horrible empire that is, You know, choking the, the galaxy. And he was like, well, in order to do that, he has to do some really bad things. And it is really interesting, like, with a character like Luther, doing these things, I think takes a toll on him. that he recognizes. whereas a character like, oh gosh, I'm blanking on his name. the overzealous, security guy at the beginning has to go home to his mommy, I forget. Cil. Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, whereas Cyril, like he's, he's subject to the same forces. And he's operating, he's, he's doing, uh, you know, what's in his interests. Uh, but like, it's like, I feel like Cyril, you know, while he has aspects about him that, you might have some, some, some sympathy for, it's like, I can't help but feel like he's, he's just not a good.

[00:30:26] Like, like, so, so it's interesting, like, like you're right. the show blurs the lines, or it's like at least saying that things aren't so clear cut. but I, I think it is saying, it's in response to the systems of power that exists. I don't know, maybe I'm, I'm reading too much into it, but I feel like, you know, we have like a window, like we see like the political stuff.

[00:30:52] We see, like the shady stuff. We, we see like the underworld stuff and then we see like, I don't know.

[00:30:59] BRACEY: I think I, I think ultimately that's what, to me, makes the show. So fantastic is that it is trying to expose that it is about the systems at play. It is not about, uh, uh, a good and bad like that. What is like real evil exists in the systems, not in the people. Um, even, even if it is some real evil characters that have like built the system, but like the way. The system is really the, the evil is really pervasive in this galaxy, is that this system is perpetuating the, the exploitation of e everything. It is just exploiting planets, creatures, humans, aliens, resources, everything.

[00:31:47] JOSH: Yeah, and like the Deedra Miro, uh, character, for example, like the I S B agent, uh, like in those scenes where like she's in. the, the empire's, like secret service or whatever. it's like you find yourself kind of rooting for her, because like, she seems like, she's at least, I think she's like the lone woman who's on that, that like, that inner circle or whatever.

[00:32:08] And like there's this. Pervading sense of workplace sexism there and you're like really rooting for her. And then you realize, wait a second, like she's fucking evil . I mean, she's really, she's really a terrible, terrible person. And it's so interesting, like if the Empire wasn't running things what would she be doing?

[00:32:27] Who would she be?

[00:32:29] BRACEY: Yeah, that's a, that's a good, that's a good question. I, but I also love that, that like, uh, how they are showing the sexism, uh, uh, the oppression within the systems of oppression. Um, because there are so many layers to it. And also I think it's fa fantastic that, uh, her foil in, in the Empire is a, a, a a black man.

[00:32:52] So it's this woman, this black man that are going, uh, fighting each other for, for just like to be one up. But in. In total, they are both answering to a white man in a system that is like, you know, and there's these subtle little things that I feel like they're putting in there that like, or it, it's just, I, I think it's very poetic and, and really, really well crafted.

[00:33:14] And, um, yeah. Yeah. I I just really appreciate these little things that if you don't know to look for it, it's just gonna go right by you. But if you're paying attention, there's, uh, yeah, there's some, there's some messages hidden in these small choices that they make.

[00:33:32] JOSH: I'm curious, Maya, what's the storyline that intrigues you the most or that you're most invested?

[00:33:40] MAYA: if I had to pick, pick one, I would say Mon Mak, just cuz.

[00:33:45] JOSH: Hmm.

[00:33:46] MAYA: Like, I just, I, I, I know eventually what happens, I think to her, like on a very s like, not a detailed, but I know that she ends up being one of the leaders of the, um, but yeah, I'm just curious how she continues to navigate her very sketchy place and all this, um, like risky place and all this.

[00:34:11] She, she's in with her husband and what happens with her daughter and all that. I'm just really excited for that.

[00:34:19] JOSH: No, totally like that stuff I thought was like really? . I mean, really what it, what it boils down to her storyline is like trying to maintain a public persona that everything is above board. And then behind the scenes she's really like the money person.

[00:34:36] MAYA: Yeah.

[00:34:37] JOSH: you know, which I just find so fascinating that like, that's an aspect of, you know, movements and revolution that usually not really dramatized.

[00:34:46] It's usually kind of skipped over. I guess, seems like one of the less flashy, least sexy, things to depict in terms of drama. but like usually in a show like this where there are like multiple story threads, like there's one or two where I'm like, you know, when it shows up, it's like, okay, well that's when.

[00:35:03] I get up to refill my, my drink or like I get up and go to the bathroom or something and I'm like, oh, okay. Like back to this, but like, this show is the rare exception where like, every time we cut to another character or another storyline, like I was just as invested as the rest of the stuff.

[00:35:19] I was like, oh, oh yeah, I forgot about this. I forgot about this. Like, I can't wait to see what's gonna happen. and, man, math's really surprised me. like how they were able to make the like very delicate dance that she's doing. just as dramatic as all of the like, heist blowing up prison break, fireworks stuff.

[00:35:38] Like I was like, You know, like especially in the last, or second to last episode of the season where like she realizes what the cost is gonna be for her.

[00:35:48] MAYA: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:49] JOSH: like, whoa, dude. Like, like that was some real edge of your seat stuff. And I was like, really? I mean, again, it just comes down to phenomenal writing, phenomenal performances.

[00:36:01] It's just like, it's just so good.

[00:36:04] BRACEY: It was, it was the part of the Star Wars universe. I didn't think I was interested, like as a long, lifelong fan, it wasn't something that I ever thought I'd be interested in. And if you wrote that like a summary on paper and showed it to me and be like, would you watch. To this show, I'd be like, nah, it's all right.

[00:36:20] But like, actually having seen it, I'm like, you could watch you, like, they could make a whole show just on that aspect of the universe, as long as they treat it with the same, um, uh, care and development that they had. And I, I'm, I'm, I'm in it. I'm, I'm there for it. I wanna see the whole thing. West Wing in Star Wars.

[00:36:37] That's fantastic. That's a sign.

[00:36:39] MAYA: Yeah, and I wouldn't have probably watched Andor if it wasn't for Josh, so thank you, Josh

[00:36:46] JOSH: Oh, well, I mean, I thank them for making this amazing show, but um, no, I was so happy, , when I saw you tweeted out your, your top 10 list of shows for 2022 and, Andor was at the top. I was like, yes. I didn't. I I, she watched it and she liked it. That's, that's good. Um, so Maya, will you rejoin us, for season two and share your thoughts on where the show goes?

[00:37:14] MAYA: I would love to. I'm probably gonna be watching Mandalorian though, in between, so

[00:37:22] JOSH: Well then well let me know, um, if you want to come on and talk about that, because I would love, I would love to hear what you think of Mandalorian and what the impression you have of Star Wars after watching Andor, and then Mandalorian. I'd be

[00:37:36] BRACEY: I'm very curious about the contrast, how you feel about the contrast between those.

[00:37:41] MAYA: Okay,

[00:37:41] cool.

[00:37:42] JOSH: well, just also really quickly, like, so you, sort of watched episode one at some point in your life, right?

[00:37:47] MAYA: Yeah, it was episode, it was like the oldest one. Yeah. Episode. No, it was, yeah, episode one.

[00:37:54] JOSH: So just out of curiosity, like does it compute for you that like that movie and this show are in the same Yeah.

[00:38:02] MAYA: I am like,

[00:38:03] JOSH: our listeners. She's shaking her head

[00:38:06] MAYA: I'm like, wait, what? This is the same IP

[00:38:10] JOSH: Yeah. It's like very, it's very different. Yeah. So that said, like, I think, you know, Mando is closer to the general vibe of what most Star Wars is as we said. But I mean, that's it. It's like, it's, I mean, that's also a very good show. Um, We'd love to have you back on if you are, if you are a minimal.

[00:38:26] But, Maya, where can people find you and your amazing podcast? Proud Stutter.

[00:38:31] MAYA: so you can find me on all the podcast listening apps. Just type in with Proud Stutter. I'm also@proudstutter.com. That's where you can find like everything. I'm on social media, TikTok a little here and there,

[00:38:48] JOSH: , well, thank you Maya for, uh, for joining us on Trash Compactor to talk Star Wars, not the beat you cover, but I'm glad that, I'm

[00:38:54] MAYA: I love it. I love, I loved nerding out with you guys cuz no one else I can do this with, so it's just so fun.

[00:39:03] JOSH: Well, we will definitely have you back. But, um, thanks for listening and Happy Star Wars Podcast Day or Podcast week as it were. And, um, please do check out, Maya's wonderful podcast, Proud Stutter, and transcripts of this episode and all of the other Trash Compactor episodes are available at Trash com, pod.com, and we are trashcan Pod across all social media.

[00:39:23] Thank you again to Bracey and Maya for joining us today, and we will see you on the next.