May 11, 2022


Three kids of the late 80s and early 90s revisit the original STAR WARS as adults...

Josh is joined by childhood friends CHRIS and JAMES to watch the original STAR WARS (aka "Episode 4: A New Hope") for the first time in ages. As kids who first experienced Star Wars on VHS in the 1990s, they discuss what they notice about the film today as adults.

James and Chris are hosts of SECRET ORIGINS OF MINT CONDITION, a podcast that recreates the comic shop from our youth and host to all manner of conversations about comics, movies & TV, sports, and more. Check it out here:



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[00:00:00] Josh: Welcome to Trash Compactor, A Star Wars Podcast where we throw out our opinions about Star Wars where they belong: with the rest of the garbage. I'm Josh. And today we're going back to the beginning in more ways than one. This is a conversation between myself and two of my oldest friends from childhood, Chris and James, where we discussed the film that started at all - a little movie called Star Wars from 1977.

[00:00:20] None of us could remember the last time we had actually just sat and watched the original Star Wars film all the way through. So we each did just that and then got together to talk about the impressions that gave us now as the. It was a lovely conversation and I hope you enjoy.

[00:00:36] Let me start off by asking, do you remember the first time you saw Star Wars? James? Why don't you go first.

[00:00:42] James: I would say my definitive memory of like actually sitting down and watching the entire trilogy is probably when--I can't remember the year when they released the THX remastered version of Star Wars.

[00:00:55] Josh: '95.

[00:00:56] James: Yeah, '95. But it may have been before then, because I remember having the [00:01:00] original 20th Century Fox, like, VHS tapes with the, you know, the traditional painted covers that they had. But my actual memory of like really getting into Star Wars was probably around that '95, '96 era fully when they remastered it.

[00:01:15] I'd probably have seen it before then, but I can't remember when, and I really don't remember falling in love with it as much as I did when the THX came out.

[00:01:22] Josh: Oh, that's interesting. I would've had you pegged for a much younger fan. Like from the eighties.

[00:01:29] James: Yeah. I mean, my first real memory of Star Wars is, I had a friend growing up who had all the toys and he set up in his room and I'm like, these are really cool, but I have no frame of reference for them.

[00:01:42] Josh: And Chris, what about you? Do you recall the first time you saw Star Wars, or what your first sort of Star Wars memory is, I guess?

[00:01:50] Chris: I don't. I don't remember the first time I saw Star Wars. The first memory I have though of watching Star Wars. And this is a thing that I [00:02:00] can just, I can see it in my mind. I'm sure not the first time I saw Star Wars, but it's--the earliest back that I can remember watching it was sleepovers at your house, Josh.

[00:02:10] It was, honestly, it was setting up in your den, which I thought was the coolest thing, because we didn't have a den. It was just the living room. And so for whatever reason at that age of six or seven or whatever, for me, having a living room where the adults went and then the den where we could watch whatever we wanted--that was the coolest thing in the world.

[00:02:30] So my earliest memory of watching Star Wars was camping out in our sleeping bags, uh, on your den floor and watching the whole trilogy, you know, for a sleepover. So that's my earliest memory of it, but I honestly can't remember the first time I saw it. And I think that's just a combination of youth, but also, much like James, I think the first time I watched it didn't grab me the way that maybe some other things did. So I think the combination of my age [00:03:00] and the fact that what really made Star Wars for me was the friendships that I had, that sort of facilitated it. So, like, being friends with you, and later on with James and with John and with Dave, and being able to talk about Star Wars--that to me was what became my attachment to Star Wars. The conversations had with other people and not just the movie by itself. The movie by itself, I don't think is what captured my imagination.

[00:03:27] Josh: That's so interesting because, you know, I've joked to people a lot in the past couple of years that, like my favorite thing about Star Wars is talking about Star Wars. Now. At this point.

[00:03:40] Chris: Yeah, no, agree. I feel similarly, so yeah, I could, I could absolutely see that.

[00:03:46] Josh: You know, it's funny though, too, because some of my earliest memories of Star Wars, Chris, are watching it at your house. I, like both of you, I have no memory of the first time I saw Star Wars. I do know that I [00:04:00] specifically sought it out because I had become, through serendipity, a Star Trek fan, and, you know, in all of the magazines, and all of the everything, Star Wars was always mentioned alongside Star Trek, right? So after seeing Star Wars enough referenced in other things, I was like, I should probably kind of investigate and see what this is. So I know that I went out and I sought it out. It's not something somebody showed me, you know. Which is also interesting because I think, if it's not obvious to anyone listening, we are of the generation that did not grow up during the original theatrical release of the original films. We sort of all came to Star Wars in that, uh, the dark times, when Star Wars was kind of, not in the public consciousness anymore. It had faded in the late eighties and nineties. And then all of a sudden, uh, James, like you were saying, around '95 with the re-release on video and then the special additions, certainly, in [00:05:00] '97. And then, obviously, the release of Episode 1, which was like, you know, the cinematic event of the century, rejuvenated the franchise in the public's consciousness. So it's interesting. We weren't there at the beginning, but we were part of the generation for which Star Wars meant three movies.

[00:05:20] James: Right.

[00:05:21] Chris: And we definitely liked it before it was cool.

[00:05:23] James: We did, yes.

[00:05:24] Chris: That was--

[00:05:25] Josh: Well, yes! Yes!

[00:05:26] Chris: It was not, it was not cool yet. And, actually, it's funny because now when,I think about it, back when we got into Star Wars, it was older people who talked about Star Wars.

[00:05:36] Josh: Right.

[00:05:36] Chris: Not younger people. You know, it was older people who would talk about quote, you know, this is, this is what Star Wars is like, and this is what it's meant to us.

[00:05:44] And, um, and things have really changed now, right? Because I don't want to say Star Wars is a, is a young person's game, but there's been absolutely a shift in that direction of, if you speak to some older folks and you were to mention The Clone Wars, they'd [00:06:00] say "what?" So--

[00:06:01] Josh: I don't think the Clone Wars were ever cooler than they were when they were mentioned in the one line in this movie that we're about to talk about.

[00:06:09] Chris: I'm sure that's a whole episode by itself, but yes.

[00:06:12] James: --Skywalker was cool too.

[00:06:15] Josh: Okay. I don't want--

[00:06:16] Chris: Right.

[00:06:16] Josh: I don't want to tip our hands too much. , No, but you're exactly right. Star Wars content is coming out fast and furious. It's particularly now on Disney Plus. Soon, we're going to have a new Star Wars show on TV, like, year-round. There's this onslaught of new Star Wars material. And when I sat down to do a podcast about Star Wars, I was like, well, I kind of think we should start at the beginning, which is to go back, watch the original movie, kind of on its own terms, and sort of see what we see in that first movie. When you were a kid, where did you rank this movie in the trilogy of the three original films.

[00:06:55] Chris: I know, I can say that it really depended on [00:07:00] age. I can tell you that, that I thought, when I was younger, it was, it was the one that I probably, in terms of what I wanted to watch, I'd rank it second, behind Jedi. Empire always made me uncomfortable because of the good guys lose. And if they lose in such a way that it always made me uncomfortable.

[00:07:25] And then as I got older, um, you know, Empire jumped up to the top because there was so much about it that I liked. And this is--when I say older, I mean, older childhood, not as an adult. But then I think, know, Star War:, A New Hope sort of dropped to third because --not because it was not as good as Return of the Jedi, but because Jedi had a green lightsaber, and all the action and, um, and, you know, fully fledged, Jedi Knights. So I think, for me, A New Hope was never, was never a number one for me when I was younger.

[00:07:59] James: Yeah. [00:08:00] I'd agree with that too. I would agree with that. Yeah. If you were--if we had all three movies. And, um, and, and just to tilt my age, I actually was only, I was three years old when Jedi was in theaters. I didn't go there, but I was, three old when Jedi was in theaters. So I'm a little bit older, but that being said, yeah, I think if I would go with Chris's--I'm aligned Chris.

[00:08:21] I think A New Hope would probably rank number three with me in terms of my order. If we're just looking at the original trilogy.

[00:08:29] Josh: For me, when I was a kid, Jedi was definitely my favorite for the reasons Chris mentioned. I had a fascination with The Empire Strikes Back. I think it took me a while to get there, but there was something about the mood. There was like a feel to that movie that was very mysterious and appealing to me.

[00:08:46] Like, I definitely had to be in the right mood for it, but there was something I was very intrigued with that I couldn't quite put my finger on about Empire. But that said, like, it wasn't a feel good movie. So ...

[00:08:58] Chris: Well, Empire is the only one that [00:09:00] actually demands anything of its audience, in my opinion, out of the original trilogy, which is why you said, you know, you've got to be in the right frame of mind, the right mood. I think that's why, you know, I think that's why we have to be in the right frame of mind is because I'm out of the original trilogy. Empire is the only one that I, in my opinion, demands anything out of it audience.

[00:09:16] Josh: I think you are onto something there. Um, So, what was it like revisiting it after all these years? Like actually trying to sit down and watch it like a movie and judging it as a movie. Top-line thoughts after this most recent rewatch: was it what you expected? Was there anything that surprised you?

[00:09:32] James: Well, I mean, I'm assuming all three of us watched the Disney Plus special edition version. Has that, is that correct? I don't know if a--

[00:09:39] Josh: I actually did not. I watched the, um--

[00:09:42] Chris: I knew you wouldn't. That's good. I knew you wouldn't though.

[00:09:45] Josh: Why did you know I wouldn't?

[00:09:47] Chris: Because, because there is--for everything that they added in the Disney Plus version, we lost from the original. And if we're talking about, you know, how we felt about it when we [00:10:00] were kids and--we're not really discussing how it holds up after time or anything, but we're trying to revisit it and talk about the magic that had held over us, not just as a film, but as a, a point of discussion.

[00:10:11] I think that's where that magic still is. Because I did, like James, I watched the Disney Plus version because I don't have a VCR anymore, and I haven't gone out of my way to figure out how to watch the older version. And there were moments where I just sort of rolled my eyes and it took me out of the movie for a minute because A) the effects feel out of place in a way that doesn't make sense.

[00:10:36] But B) it makes me think about--it just gets me wrapped up in my own nonsense where I'm thinking of there was, there was a time, I thought it was cool that they quote, "fixed this." Or I was so excited that they had Jabba here. And so it, it actually took me out of the movie. So I assumed you were going to go back to the original, just so that you really could do--by the way, Josh, really, thank you for [00:11:00] one of the very few homework assignments that I've ever enjoyed. The only--and this homework assignment I've waited for since elementary school, and not one of my teachers ever gave it to me. So thank you Josh for that. But, you know, the assignment was to watch it and try and walk away from it without infusing our notions of it and our viewing of it with everything we know--the prequels, the sequels, the TV shows, the content, all of that stuff. it's hard for me, personally, to not get wrapped up in that um, if I'm not, if I'm watching the Disney Plus version. So that was my assumption was that's why you go back to the source material because it's a, frankly it's a much cleaner, cleaner watch.

[00:11:41] James: I agree. I mean, if I had the option of--same, same issue with Chris. I don't have my VHS copies and, you know, this was the way I could watch it, most accessibly, was the Disney Plus version. So that's what I watched. And I guess, the biggest thing is like--yeah. it was [00:12:00] the distractedness of trying to watch this in a bubble, but also mentally strip away all the extraneous special edition stuff and see if I can jog my memory for how it felt before, you know, Han shot fir--you know, Han shot first, going back to the, you know,--that's the, that's the--

[00:12:17] Josh: Han--Han didn't shoot first--he was the only one who shot.

[00:12:21] James: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:24] Josh: I mean, I mean, that's what people forget. Han never shot first. Han shot.

[00:12:27] James: Right.

[00:12:28] Chris: Right.

[00:12:29] Josh: Sorry, I just had get--

[00:12:30] Chris: Right. Han shot Greedo.

[00:12:32] So really we need are--we need, you know, shirts that say "Han shot Greedo."

[00:12:36] James: Yeah.

[00:12:37] Chris: Those--those're the shirts we need.

[00:12:39] James: And in that version, Han is a, is a better character. Because it shows. So going back to what you said: the takeaway. Harrison Ford's putting an amazing performance. You know, especially if you go back to the original version where you see him as this person who will kill [00:13:00] someone in cold blood. Yeah. And sort of just walk away from it, tipping the bartender to becoming the hero of the end basically. Without Han returning with his "hero's return," Luke doesn't get to be the hero blows up the Death Star. So,--and Harrison Ford, all along the way, is your audience member keeping you grounded and all this, uh, crazy alien world and mysticism going on.

[00:13:22] So I don't know if I, as a younger person, recognized how great Harrison--the stuff Harrison Ford was doing in this role. And then we had talked about, you know, a little bit beforehand, um, you know, Alec Guinness as Obi-Wan Kenobi setting up, you know, everything that has been built off Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ewan McGregor's performance, uh, you know, the stuff he was doing as Obi-Wan is amazing and still holds up very well. And I, you know, the two of them together are what, like sort of set the groundwork that you can get lost in this, uh, this world of, you know, sci-fi fantasy. So are my initial impressions of watching it again.

[00:13:58] Josh: No. Yeah. I agree with [00:14:00] you. The, um, one of the things that stood out most to me on this watch was, I appreciated some of the performances. In particular, the ones you've mentioned. Harrison Ford is so good in this movie. And his character really, I think, sells you on the reality of this universe. Because he's someone you recognize and, let's face it, like, his performance, Harrison Ford's performance, you just want to watch whatever he's going to do on screen. Sir Alec Guinness, like you mentioned, he, um, he evokes the entire sense of this Jedi order through a couple of scenes and his, his casting and the movie, I think, uh, really helped it immensely. And one that I think is sadly overlooked, not just in this movie, but in many others, Peter Cushing as Tarkin.

[00:14:48] And he's a veteran of dozens of Hammer horror films in the UK at this point. And he knows exactly how to play this. Darth Vader is the [00:15:00] flashier villain in this movie, but to have an actor be able to stand on the screen next to the, like, seven foot bodybuilder wearing that suit and not be wiped off the screen, like he, he still has presence and you still fear him.

[00:15:18] And that's no small feat when you're standing next to one of the most iconic movie designs in film history.

[00:15:25] Chris: Yeah. See, here's the thing about Tarkin. I, cause I, I didn't appreciate him as much when I was younger. He was, he was fine, but I didn't, I didn't give him much thought. It's funny, now I play, I play a Star Wars Miniatures game called Star Wars Armada. And, and Grand Moff Tarkin was the--one of the first commanders to ever come out ,and they've come out with many since, but, but Tarkin was considered overpriced for a long time and he sort of became my pet project.

[00:15:51] And I found that I really liked flying with him. I thought there was a lot I could do. One of the things that I, the reason that I mentioned [00:16:00] Tarkin and how much--because I really have, I've come to appreciate Peter Cushing as I've gotten older, not just because of his acting, but from a narrative standpoint, Josh, you mentioned that he, you know--how you're able to hold your own standing next to such an iconic creation. And really, it's interesting cause he worked on all those monster movies, he was a monster sometimes. And, and here he is standing next to one. Vader is the villain that can't exist in our world, but Tarkin can. Vader has these, I mean, he's got these magical powers and stuff, but Tarkin is the one who lies to Leia and says, I'll spare your planet if you, if you just tell me where the rebel base is and she tells him and he believes it. We find out later, you know, when he's really upset, she lied. She lied to us. Yeah. He believed her. He blew up the planet anyway, just as a test. And he says you're far too trusting. So he's the older guy who lies. He's in power, he's established. He has all of these henchmen in [00:17:00] his command. He's and he's sort of inescapable too, right? Because when he's threatening Leia, he doesn't raise his voice. He just gets uncomfortably close and she flinches into--she would rather flinch into Vader than stand her ground against Tarkin.

[00:17:12] Um, that's a thing that I never really would have latched on to when I was younger, but especially with this viewing, you know, she has a choice between getting closer to Vader and being closer to Tarkin and she picks Vader.

[00:17:26] James: Yeah, that's a very good observation terms of, you know, command that Peter Cushing had of the character, and the space, and what he gave to that character. I mean, mean, so much so that that's his one performance as a character and that character has lived well beyond him and is still based upon his look in all his incarnations.

[00:17:45] So it was, you know, he gave such a, you know--Tarkin has become so much more or, or has become so much more just because of Peter Cushing's initial performance.

[00:17:54] Chris: I mean, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but he, he's not a guy who ever came out and [00:18:00] regretted doing Star Wars. You know, like Alec Guinness.

[00:18:01] Josh: No, no, no, no, no. He, um, he had no pretensions at all about it. He was just happy to be working and happy that people enjoyed his work. he was just--

[00:18:10] Chris: And that's, and to me, that's just like, you know, I know that sometimes we, we, and it depends on who it is. It depends on what it is. And sometimes we S we can more easily separate the artist from their work. You know, it always made me sad that Alec Guinness regretted being Obi-Wan Kenobi and said so publicly.

[00:18:27] Whereas if Peter Cushing had any thoughts about in that vein at all he never shared them. You know, this was a ridiculously insanely accomplished actor. And he took role and he filled it so well, and like you said, no pretension about it. Hey, you just came in and he did, he did the work. As an actor, I adore him for it.

[00:18:52] And as a, an older Star Wars fan, I just I'm grateful to him for creating such an iconic character. Like you said, [00:19:00] James: in such a short period of time. And he took, you know, he could have easily been. And for, you know, when I was younger, he was, but it could very easily been overshadowed by everything else that was happening.

[00:19:12] But that man, even while wearing fuzzy slippers while ordering a planet destroyed, that man stood like a Titan. And for anybody who doesn't know that story, that--I just enjoy that he was on set, filming, wearing cushy slippers.

[00:19:29] Josh: Yeah. Apparently the boots that they had made for him were several sizes, too small. And so--

[00:19:34] Chris: Yeah.

[00:19:35] Josh: He--the boots were uncomfortable or very uncomfortable and he was, he apparently he said, Hey, George, is it okay if I take the, I take the boots off and he said, yeah, sure, go ahead.

[00:19:46] Chris: Yeah. It's tremendous. I'm just glad that I know that.

[00:19:50] Josh: No. Yeah. And also by all accounts, he was just a lovely, lovely man. Carrie Fisher has said that scene where Vader brings her to him. And she has to say, "I [00:20:00] recognize your foul stench when I was brought on board," or whatever it is. She said it was so hard to be nasty because he is such a lovely man who smells of lavender. And you just like, you just, you didn't want to--it was just really hard to get into that mindset. You know, that in of itself really speaks to the man's abilities as a performer because he exudes, exudes evil in this movie. And I do really like what you said Chris, about, one of the things that makes Tarkin a more effective villain than Vader is that he can exist in our world.

[00:20:34] We have men like that in our own world. It's something that we, we recognize or as Vader is really more of, he's more of an abstraction.

[00:20:43] James: Vader, like when I watched it also giving, you know, like thoughts, like the feelings I had when I watched the movie, you know, the design for Vader still holds up today. Like if Vader did not exist back in 1977, but somebody put him put that design in a movie today, I think it [00:21:00] would still be just as impressive and, you know, menacing as it was back when.

[00:21:04] Chris: Absolutely.

[00:21:05] James: They nailed the design. Like they nailed a perfect design. I, you know, if you, if I you know, with my, with an artist's mind, like when I think like, could I redesigned our Vader and make it better? I don't think there's a way to it successfully to redesign that costume, nor does it need to be redesigned.

[00:21:20] Like he's perfectly menacing, um, vague at that point, if he's man or machine. And it's just, it's a look that I think holds up and will continue to hold up, as an he's the, he's the icon of dark villainy.

[00:21:34] Josh: I agree with you. Totally. And I would actually go a step further. I think the design and production design of this movie is just impeccable. I think one of the reasons why it's so it's so effective as a movie is because the designs are just so, uh, so I conic and well realized, and I know that this is not an original observation.

[00:21:56] The world really feels like it's lived in and [00:22:00] like, it has a cohesive, sort of a logic. It like feels real for so many reasons. And I think this is the first time that scifi fantasy has ever really achieved that. Certainly in film.

[00:22:14] James: Oh, yeah. I mean, I agree. I mean that movie defines so many things. Like I said, we had Darth Vader, amazing design. Stormtrooper. If you think any type of Stormtrooper or Shocktrooper, you're gonna think of those Stormtroopers. Any like armored henchman army that came after that is I think inspired by the look of Stormtroopers, Lightsabers, lasers, laser swords.

[00:22:37] I mean, you know, that's, any time it's a sword that is not made of metal in any type of sci-fi going for it, it's a lightsaber or some derivative of it. So yeah, it's just, every, everything is like taken from the, uh, the design and the concepts that everything from that, Star Wars.

[00:22:55] Josh: The other thing that's also interesting about the designs is that they do have a kind of timeless [00:23:00] quality, even though they're very clearly products of the mid to late 1970s, to the point where they are still recreating that aesthetic in modern Star Wars today. And it doesn't need to be reinterpreted.

[00:23:16] They sold the reality of that world so well that from our vantage point now, It's really hard to wrap our heads around, like what a paradigm shift,. What a revelation that was in 1970s.

[00:23:30] James: Well, I would, I would just say like, it's, it's interesting that, you know, going back to like, like the world of Star Wars is an, an old world, I guess. It's an old universe. Like we got to see it in the, in Episodes 1, 2, and 3. I guess that's as pristine as the universe got, that we've seen the universe so far, pristine, but that's not their war0torn, with rebellions and Empires and that stuff.

[00:23:53] So that's as pristine as it got and it was still old and ancient. I don't, I don't know. I think that's the universe of Star Wars is alwaysit's [00:24:00] futuristic, but somewhat, always antiquated at the same time.

[00:24:03] Josh: of the things that, that I also think we forget and overlook is this whole notion of a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Some early drafts of George Lucas's script for Star Wars, where it was set in like the 33rd century, right? But the moment where he decided to set it in a world that was never reachable and move it into the realm of the fairy tale, I think, I don't know, like it just allows you to get away with--and I don't mean that in a negative way, but get away with so many things.

[00:24:38] I think, you know, really interrogating it a little bit. I think when. The brilliant, maybe the most brilliant thing about Star Wars is the way that it's mashes up genres. Wasn't the first to do that. Uh, but I think it was the first piece of pop culture to do like a genre mashup on [00:25:00] such a large and successful scale.

[00:25:03] You have the, the iconography and the logic of the Western, of samurai films, of high fantasy. And the way that it can slip in and out of those things is sort of the joy and the glee of watching Star Wars. And I think one of the reasons it endures to this day in so many permutations, because room for so many different things, you never know what's gonna come next.

[00:25:29] It's like, you know, you see a guy in robes with a sword, you immediately understand the logic of, you know, knights and, and everything that comes with that. You see a guy wearing a flight suit and jumping in a Star Fighter. You're immediately thinking, okay, you know, World War II movie, and like you understand the logic. The way that it slips in and out of genres and is able to kind of seamlessly blend them all and have them all coexist side by side is no small feat.

[00:25:58] And I think that's [00:26:00] one of the, if not the reason, why this movie is so enchanting. It has captured the minds of so many children, because it sort of is like a child playing with all of their action figures, right? Like they take the guy with the cowboy hat, and they take the guy with the sword and mix and match, and they all play and exist in the same universe. That's kind of what Star Wars is. It's a kid who's playing with all their toys.

[00:26:27] Chris: We were talking about the genre mixing and matching. I think that's one of the reasons it needs to be set in the past. Because I think that when we start looking into future, you know, when we, when we're in the future, we have the feel as though, even if it's happening far away, we base it on our own society and go, well, why did we advance here but not there? This doesn't, you know, this doesn't make sense to me, but if we set it in the past, things like the. Western genre suddenly make a lot more sense. It explains why--and this is of course from a broader [00:27:00] standpoint--why it is that news travels so slowly, in general, in a time when you can use your Com in contact just about anybody anywhere. Or, you know, why it is that Leia has to send a message by homing droid, right?

[00:27:14] Like, so I think that sort of thing really works so much better in the past because one of the things I got from my, my first time around viewing of it, trying to look at it with fresh eyes was how unapologetic it is. It doesn't try to explain everything. It just, this is the way it is and here are the rules. And it doesn't even fully explain the rules.

[00:27:38] It just sort of keeps going and it trusts that you'll follow along. If you miss something, then right, it's not going to ruin the movie for you. They--so I feel like the story told unapologetically. So you end up with this mishmash of, like you said, Josh, about different genres, different types of storytelling.[00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Even though there were elements that feel futuristic, James, like you said, it's older, it's much more familiar. So it's something that we're comfortable in from the get go because it's not--you know, the only really alien things are the costumes and the makeup. Those are really the only alien things. Um, the languages, sure, but otherwise everything else is very, very familiar to us.

[00:28:21] It's comfortably alien and it's alien in a way that we enjoy, which is they look different than we do and the--you know, I mean ,the Cantina scene. The Cantina scene is just really, really lovely, like going back and watching and again, sort of really paying attention to it. You know, the little fruit bat critter at the bar, getting a little glass of juice and, uh, different aliens, just standing around like--the different pieces and the looks. And, and, the one, the one thing that's discriminated against in the bar are droids. It's just, which struck me as very, very funny, back now. Yeah, I just, [00:29:00] I think that it was one of the reasons why it feels good as it does and the way it's it's lasted as long as it has is, it's sort of set in the only place that it can be set, in the only way it can be set. Which is--like you say, I like the way you, you draw that comparison to a child ,which means we all feel comfortable playing in that world too.

[00:29:26] Another thing I found myself doing, watching this movie, was: some of the scenes, some of the music, I remembered being younger--that was whether I was in elementary school or high school that I'd be watching this movie in my bedroom. I'd be on my bed. And, and frequently, you know, instead of sitting up, I'd sort of be like on my knees, like leaning in, leaning into this movie and, and, and being really, really excited for what comes next, despite how many times I had seen it. I didn't do that this time, but I [00:30:00] kinda wanted to. I felt that excitement of leaning in,, which I found surprising after all these years.

[00:30:06] Josh: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, the music is a whole other thing

[00:30:09] James: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:10] Josh: We haven't gotten into--like, I mean, George Lucas himself has said it: so much of why Star Wars works is because of the music and the brilliant John Williams. I don't think there's a better film score. There are a few, but some of them are probably also by John Williams.

[00:30:28] James: Yes.

[00:30:28] Josh: They, if somebody said that Star Wars was the best film score of all time, I wouldn't argue with that. I mean, it's that good.

[00:30:37] James: Yeah, I,agree. I have nothing to say. I mean, I think Star Wars, like that's probably one of the first, like, soundtracks I ever had was Star Wars. So I can't argue with that.

[00:30:45] Josh: Yeah, same.

[00:30:46] Chris: It was Star Wars, uh, the Star Wars soundtrack that made me think. To myself when people would ask, what kind of music do you like that I'd say classical, because of it's, it's a giant orchestra. It was what made me think. Ooh, this has.

[00:30:58] Josh: And that's another reason that the [00:31:00] movie is sort of timeless. George Lucas has said that at the time, you know, uh, to do this kind of a classical film score, uh, with an orchestra was kind of an unusual move at the time. Like that was not in vogue and it was kind of an old fashioned way of scoring a movie, but he knew that that's what he wanted for this movie.

[00:31:20] What it was supposed to be. And I think he was exactly right. I mean, could you imagine not to stray too far away, but something that always strikes me whenever I watch apocalypse now, the Francis Ford Coppola film, which ironically was the movie that George Lucas was going to make after American graffiti, but he decided to make Star Wars instead.

[00:31:39] But the score to that movie is like this very kind of electronic synthy sort of score. Really places it in a moment in time. I mean, it's a great score and it works for the film. It's much of its time. The score for Star Wars sounds timely.

[00:31:56] James: Yeah.

[00:31:57] Josh: When it very easily could have been [00:32:00] made in the style of the day or even worse, like in the style of like what, a Saifai film soundtrack was like, quote, unquote, supposed to sound like was like, you know, all sorts of weird electronic sounds.

[00:32:13] And there are men and all sorts of that stuff. Like it just wouldn't be nearly as effective.

[00:32:18] Chris: No. I mean, it's it, it serves the, it serves the greater whole it's iconic. I think there's sometimes you see a movie and you think the score was better than the film or the score. And the score was not as good as the film or whatever. This was one of those, those instances, I think, where. The synergy is so good that I can't imagine the film without the score.

[00:32:40] And vice-versa, I can't hear the music without seeing the scene, you know, when they're in the asteroid field and, you know, I can't see that. I can't see when they're in the forest on speeders, speeder bikes. I can't see that without hearing the music. I can't hear the music without seeing it. So, you know, there were a lot of, I think there are a lot of movies that can exist without their movie, without their music.

[00:32:58] They're less for it, but they can do [00:33:00] it. Um, I think this is one of those movies that. Only holds up because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[00:33:07] Josh: Okay. Well things you said that I wanted to, uh, to tease out a little bit, when you said that the film is unapologetic in its storytelling and doesn't really explain anything. I mean, you're absolutely right. And again, I think part of the reason why. It gets away with that is because it is, playing with these familiar genres and the right monography.

[00:33:27] So you sort of bring with you the knowledge of how those genres work. So you don't need to have something explained because you know, the logic of a Western, you know, the. logic of a Samurai movie. You know the logic of a fairytale. The movie sort of relies on film literacy or pop culture literacy for it to sort of pull off the magic trick that it pulls off.

[00:33:49] George Lucas recounts the experience when he was in film school, uh, for the first time seeing all of these foreign films. And the first time he saw an Akira Kurosawa [00:34:00] film, he didn't understand what was going on because he wasn't familiar with the history or the culture, but he could still follow the story.

[00:34:07] And he, he kind of liked that he didn't know the world, but the world clearly had an internal logic and had sense of the world that was outside the frame of the screen. And he said that with Star Wars, that was really kind of what he was trying to recreate. He wanted to recreate that, that sense that he had walking into a Japanese samurai film and still being able to follow the story.

[00:34:34] And I think he did it.

[00:34:35] James: Yeah.

[00:34:35] Chris: No, he absolutely, he absolutely does it. Um, there are certain things that people could argue, they don't understand, but, um, you know, that he never bothers explaining hyperspace. He never explains how lightsabers work. Um, he, he doesn't explain outside of saying, oh, the forest is everywhere. Uh, yeah, just, just tap it, you know, like he doesn't really explain how any of it works, because as you [00:35:00] say, he doesn't really have to be counts on the audience coming in and understanding things.

[00:35:04] And, um, and I never really, you know, now I, I trying to watch this, I thought to myself, does it bother me to not know. How this works. And that was, that was really difficult for me to tease apart because there, there are a lot of TV shows and movies now that I'll watch with a critical eye and be like, but that doesn't make any sense, or I really, really respect when they make it make sense, like the expanse and how they do space travel and humans in space.

[00:35:31] Scientifically a lot of it really checks out and that's, that's super cool to me. Um, and then there are other things in other shows that I just, just bothers me because it feels like they're hand waving, you know, there's there's plot armor involved. And so it was difficult for me to watch Star Wars, A New Hope time and really feel whether or not I was disconnected from, from those expectations, from that type of criticism.

[00:35:58] Would I level it at Star [00:36:00] Wars? If I didn't have. The history with it that I do AI know, I know more about it extensively beyond the movie, but also I have a history for it. So it's, it's, you know, it's something that I, that's the stalwart for me too. And I'll be honest. That's one thing that I, I really couldn't get away from a clean view of it, in that regard was watching it the first time today.

[00:36:23] If I were to do it today for the very, very first time without knowing anything about it the use of plot arms. In this movie bother me and I, and I'm honestly not sure.

[00:36:34] Josh: Is there. And you said there's, um, you know, sort of the, the scientific accuracy of the space travel, which for science fiction, the technology, and the way that it works is, is sort of one of the features of science fiction, right? It's SCIENCE fiction.

[00:36:48] Chris: Sure. Absolutely. It's a, it's a central tenant. Absolutely.

[00:36:50] Josh: Uh, Star Wars. It's not science fiction. It's using iconography and the logic of the space age to really make a [00:37:00] Samurai Western World War II movie.

[00:37:02] Chris: Absolutely. No, absolutely. It's, it's definitely not. Um, it's definitely not science fiction. I know, and when I was younger, I, I thought it was, I didn't, I didn't understand that it was the space opera that this was

[00:37:13] Josh: Yeah,

[00:37:13] Chris: The hero's journey.

[00:37:14] Josh: Like, I mean, there's a reason why the debate rages on to this day Star Wars versus Star Trek. I mean, that's an absurd debate to have because they are not doing the same thing at all. The only similarity is just--is is superficial. The other thing that you were talking about in terms of the plot armor of you mean like how Stormtroopers can't ever hit anything? Is, is that sort of what you're talking about?

[00:37:39] Chris: Yeah, I mean, it's some of Stormtroopers can't hit anything needed can the TIE fighter pilots. The way Luke learns the Force as sort of as quickly as he does. And if it gets worse in later movies, but how quickly he becomes a little bit more adept. And I know some this is like natural, [00:38:00] and, also it's a timing thing too, right? Because, like, the Stormtroopers missing on the Death Star makes sense. Because Vader's plan is to let them get away because there's a, there's a tracer on the Falcon. So it's like, okay, well, yeah, that's--they missed intentionally. They're supposed to look as though they're offering resistance. But Leia's the only one who knows off the bat, like, they're tracking us. That's the only reason we made it. So for me, it's, it's a lot of the, a lot of the plot armor is that, that sort of final scene.

[00:38:28] Josh: I mean, I hear what you're saying. Stuff like that really doesn't because the mode of storytelling this is.

[00:38:36] James: It didn't, it didn't hit me. Like I'm I'm okay kind of not knowing or explaining stuff, mainly because I get in the first movie we were supposed to be in Luke's shoes, and he doesn't know anything. So I guess, you know, Luke is our guide through it. So a lot of the unexplainable stuff, the stuff that's not explained is Luke is not explained to it.

[00:38:55] He's just along for the ride. Like we're supposed to be. I mean, yeah. I mean, I, I, Chris, I definitely [00:39:00] get where you're coming from. Some of like, if you really nitpick on some of the stuff, like, you know, the Falcon coming out of nowher., You know, TIE fighters being inept in terms of like hitting, hitting things or, you know, even landing a shot in the Falcon.

[00:39:16] Um, but again, it doesn't bother me so much it takes me out of the movie. So some of the stuff I was thinking about when you were talking about that stuff, Chris, was also like, uh, you know, again, trying to look at this with fresh eyes, the character of Obi-Wan as a Jedi Knight is, um--that's the first time you're seeing a Jedi Knight, and it's an interesting thing from what you're first introduced you to what they eventually evolved to. I mean, this is a guy who's, it seems like--

[00:39:39] Chris: Yeah.

[00:39:39] James: Peaceful, but, uh, you know, one thing in a bar and he chops a guy's arm off. I mean, it seems--

[00:39:45] Chris: Yeah. Yeah, no, he does that. He does that pretty quickly.

[00:39:47] James: Seems to escalate pretty quickly.

[00:39:49] Josh: He offered to buy him a drink.

[00:39:53] Chris: That's um, yeah. Yeah. I, and, and, and so after that, it just, it escalated, it skipped a [00:40:00] couple of steps, but it went from a to, you know, G or H.

[00:40:03] James: I'm trying to, I'm trying to think in my mind, if this is the first time, well, we really don't know a Jedi's it's only because of the background story where you think that this calm, peaceful violence is the last resort, but I guess for the first time you're meeting them and you know, you don't know Obi-Wan Kenobi is backstory. I mean, that's just where he's at at that point in his journey. I've I've been through a lot of stuff and I'll give you one chance. And after that, I'm going to, I'm going to take your arm or take your life. That's it. I mean, Tatooine's a hard place to live in.

[00:40:34] Chris: Yeah.

[00:40:35] Josh: I mean, I know you're joking, but, but I think it's an important distinction. He, he did not take his life. He took his arm. And we also know, you know, this is a universe where he can get another one.

[00:40:45] James: RIght.

[00:40:46] Chris: That's true.

[00:40:47] Josh: Um,

[00:40:47] Chris: And it is, and it is the wild west and, uh,

[00:40:51] Josh: He's showing this crowd that they are not ones to sort of be messed with. I mean, basically.

[00:40:58] James: But, and then again, then, I mean, [00:41:00] not to like deviate from the, the theme of the episode, but if you take, if you take the journey of obiwan as a whole, also the character, that's where I view it. That's where the--looking back, looking forward, but looking back at the same time that that's where he's at in his journey at this point,

[00:41:14] Josh: Yeah, no. And that makes total sense.

[00:41:16] James: Like he he's very patient and calm, but at point, like he, this is his, like, know, if you really look at it, like he's, he's Merlin, and that's King Arthur, and he's the chosen one and I gotta get this done.

[00:41:26] This is it. I have got to get King Arthur to take out Darth Vader or the Empire or otherwise it's all lost. So he doesn't have the time to be delicate, I guess, anymore.

[00:41:35] Chris: And, you know what I will say this the other for me a little bit of plot armor that looking back on now that I, that I think is his sort of plot armor is, uh, the fact that an escape pod, like, just goes, and for some reason, the gunner is told to hold your fire.

[00:41:53] Josh: Oh, sure.

[00:41:54] Chris: It must've been a misfire. Like, it's kinda like, uh, droids are a thing.

[00:41:59] We know droids are a [00:42:00] thing. So it's not unlikely that there are droids in there, which means there might be data in there. Um, either kill it or collect it. And also it's a Star Destroyer. It's not really difficult to do that. Just use the tractor beam. We don't know about the tractor beam until a little bit later, but the tractor beam on Death Star pulls the Falcon in from like pretty big F-ing distance. The tractor beam on the Star Destroyer is not quite as powerful, but we know it has a tractor beam because that's how they get the Corellian Corvette. That's how they-get-Jaina's-Light, the name of the ship in the beginning, there--or, no, sorry, the, uh, the Tantive--that's the Tantive IV.

[00:42:36] Josh: Yeah, the Tantive IV. Oh, you know, that, That, uh, you just made me realize they didn't have to have that shot of the guy to say, "hold-your-fire-there's-no-lifeforms," you know, if-they-just-injected-the-escape-pod-and-just-shot-away, you-wouldn't-have-even-questioned-it.

[00:42:49] Chris: Yep.

[00:42:49] And this is, and this is what, yeah, this is no, you're absolutely right. And this is what Star Wars has always done because they create their own universe and their own rules. That's great. Uh, I may [00:43:00] think that a rule they make is stupid. But whether it's stupid or not, they've created it. So as long as you abide by it, uh, that's, that's fine.

[00:43:07] And this is what we get into with the later movies. I'm not going to talk about it tonight, but I will say that we get into it with the later movies where it's like, you made the rule. This isn't like a, you're a one-time we're going to break the rule, you know, Ghostbusters cross the streams. You told us not to do that. It's bad. This is a rule that suddenly you just break whenever you feel like it, because it serves your narrative. So I think the plot armor gets worse later, but it's exactly what you said, Josh. I, they create their own rules and therefore, any time that the plot armor becomes for me an issue, uh, it's a thing that they've created.

[00:43:41] It's a thing they've written. And you said, they, they don't need that scene at all. It's, it's a couple of seconds they don't need, but they put it in.

[00:43:49] Josh: No, but that's, what's so interesting about it because this is the first of these movies. It does have to do a lot of explaining that the other movies don't necessarily have to do because all of the other movies [00:44:00] have the, uh, the benefit of this movie existing. So, you know, what Star Wars is, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, the reason to include that scene, I suppose idea that.

[00:44:11] Droids or not lifeforms, that kind of explains why Leia would entrust them with the plans and it like kind of hints at this whole idea of where droids are on the pecking order, you know?

[00:44:25] Chris: and again, it's, it's, they're unapologetic and they're storytelling because you're, you're right about. Um, they also, again, what I, you know, when I think about them being, I keep using the word because I think it's apt is, they wrote the scene in there because like you said, they probably wanted to cover why the escape pod is not fired down.

[00:44:43] Um, despite the ruthlessness of the Imperials, we're going to show there's a logic to the ruthlessness as well. Um, and we're going to show where the joy stand on all of this and sort of how and why they get away and why Leia might've. That's that instead of just, she, maybe she should have, why didn't she get on the escape pod [00:45:00] herself, maybe that's, you know, so it makes sense to me why they do it, but also, I, I can't imagine that at the time, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine at the time they were thinking about plot armor, because also sort of the genre in which, which you're writing, when you're talking about the hero's

[00:45:16] Josh: That's exactly it.

[00:45:17] Chris: the hero's journey is very flawed, from a--

[00:45:20] Josh: Yeah, no, no, that's exactl it. The mode of storytelling that this is operating in, or one of the modes of storytelling, but I would say the overriding one, which is sort of mythological hero's journey, um, kind of high fantasy thing like that just comes with the territory. it's sort of baked into the cake.

[00:45:38] So I guess that's why it doesn't, bother me that much. There are a couple things that stood out to me on this watch. Once they escaped the Death Star right after Obi-Wan sacrifices himself, that scene on the Falcon where Leia is comforting. Luke, I find very strange given that she just watched her [00:46:00] entire planet explode.

[00:46:03] Presumably with everyone. She knows yet. She's the one who has to comfort the male protagonist because he just lost a guy he's known for about seven hours. Like I

[00:46:15] Chris: Oh, yeah, no, I know I'm so I'm so glad you brought that up because that was one thing that I really took away from, from watching. This was, um, was just, I love that how strong Carrie Fisher is and how strongly it is an off-hand comment she had. Han very rarely like really gets under her skin. Like he does sometimes, but like she's bigger than he is.

[00:46:39] And I love that and they, they really ease off of the gas. Um, you know, halfway through Empire and then in Return of the Jedi the, is something else. But, but yes, I absolutely love that you brought that up because you're right. She witnesses her whole planet. Uh, her whole life be destroyed after she was promised that it wouldn't be.[00:47:00]

[00:47:00] and, and then she's comforting Luke, over a guy that he lost that he's known for five

[00:47:05] Josh: Yeah. And I mean, you know, you could argue that that sort of says something about her strength and I agree with you generally speaking, she's she's a very strong presence in this movie and a great. And I certainly don't want to diminish the fact that both the character of princess Leia and Carrie Fisher have been inspirational to, uh, generations of, of kids.

[00:47:28] Uh, but I think the real issue is it just shows you the film is not really interested in the interiority of its female characters.

[00:47:36] James: Right. Definitely.

[00:47:37] Josh: You know, it's interesting because for years and years that never crossed my mind. It really stuck out to me on this watch. Like I was like,

[00:47:43] Chris: And I had a similar experience, but that's because I identified with. For years and years and years, and still, I still identify with Luke, but, but especially being younger, you know, we're, we're generally as humans, we're more self-centered. And so for me it [00:48:00] was, it was, yeah, this, this story makes sense because I'm Luke, Luke is me.

[00:48:04] And so this is what, this is the part that I'm interested in. So, you know, it wasn't until, I got older that I was able to watch it and go, going to still enjoy it a lot. It still means a lot. Yeah. Uh, there's there's stuff in here that, you know, not okay.

[00:48:19] Josh: it's just kind of a weird note. It just kind of reads very uncomfortably and very like what.

[00:48:24] James: I mean, you could also say like, again, it's showing her strong character, but aside from her plan blowing up, she was tortured by Darth Vader.

[00:48:30] Josh: Yes, that is true. She was tortured. She was, she was tortured. And if you listen to the radio drama, it was very unpleasant. Like it wasn't like some kind of like a truth serum that was in that syringe. Like, like she felt like she was on fire, right? Like this was not a pleasant experience.

[00:48:47] Chris: And she resists, she doesn't, she doesn't, she doesn't even lie and give them the information right. Under pain of torture, which, I mean, there are parts of me that liked to think that I, but I'm telling you, if you took like a pair of [00:49:00] pliers and to put it near one of my things. I would crack and tell you everything you wanted to

[00:49:05] Josh: I know Yeah.

[00:49:06] Chris: fingernail and I would crack and she never cracks.

[00:49:09] Josh: just think it's fair to say. She went through an ordeal though, as opposed to Luke also lost his, his family though. She doesn't know that he knows that, that she lost her planet. Uh, cause uh, they're flying through its remnants.

[00:49:23] Chris: No, I mean, he does, he suffers loss, but also

[00:49:26] Josh: Yeah, no, no. It's not to compare their--

[00:49:29] Chris: sure, sure. Of course.

[00:49:31] Josh: losses. It's it's, it's more that the film is more interested in what Luke is suffering through, not what Les is suffering

[00:49:38] James: Right. And we never get the moment of her crying for all the wrong.

[00:49:44] Josh: Right.

[00:49:44] Chris: And to be fair, they very specifically, you know, I always, as an actor, as a director, as a writer for a long time, I have just because this is what I was taught. And so that's what I've taken to heart. It is harder to watch a character. Like fight against crying [00:50:00] than to see a character cry. It's harder to watch a character fight against breaking down versus actually breaking down.

[00:50:07] And so what we see, we don't see leg with, through any of that at all. We do see Luke see the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle, and he has a moment of light consternation and then like, resilience. So we see that from him. So like there's a little bit of sorrow, but like he's ready to move on pretty much right away, because.

[00:50:26] 'cause that's, you know, to quote Thor, that's what heroes do. So I there's, it's interesting because there it, makes sense too, right? Because we're talking about the hero's journey. So there's, there's some stereotypical, uh, archetypal elements to Luke, that in some ways, make him less interesting as a character because he has certain boxes he needs to check.

[00:50:48] And so we sort of see Luke's response as being stoic.

[00:50:52] Josh: Yeah, because he has to be as a function of the kind of story he's in. I would agree with you. I don't find Luke to be a [00:51:00] particularly compelling character, especially not in this movie, but that's, uh, something for another, another episode.

[00:51:06] Chris: Yeah, I agree.

[00:51:09] Josh: I had suspected this, but this rewatch only confirmed it for me.

[00:51:12] Star Wars. The best as a standalone film. As one entry and a larger saga, I think it's most effective when you haven't seen the prequels. And there isn't this whole, know, universe of lore that it's part of. I kind of lament the loss of having the experience of watching this movie where you don't know what the clone wars are.

[00:51:36] You don't know where Darth Vader came from. I think that, um, the idea that George Lucas had, he wanted to create the sense of. Wandering in to a foreign film and, you know, not really knowing what it was, but still able to follow the story and have a good time and get something out of it. Like, I think that that's something really unique and [00:52:00] special that he created that, that this movie by function of what came after it and what it spawned, it doesn't really operate that way.

[00:52:08] James: No. I agree with you. I mean, it's, it's ironic with, if you take the entire Star Wars universe, as it exists. Or if you just take whatever's in cannon with the Disney lore, is the movie as much as writers like Dave Filoni and John Fabro tried to do to fit everything into this, this making sense of this movie.

[00:52:26] This, this movie is still the one you have to in your mind, like retrofit certain things for it to fit in the greater Star Wars universe. Now have to fit Star Wars into the Star Wars universe is an ironic thing.

[00:52:36] Josh: Yes. I mean, that's true. And you know, sometimes it's fun. Like, um, I would hardly recommend the Karen Gillan, Darth Vader mini series that, uh, came out a couple of years ago where he makes a whole meal. The whole instigating incident is sort of the moment where Darth Vader, discovers he has a son and he.

[00:52:56] James: No.

[00:52:57] Chris: Yes.

[00:52:58] Josh: a great story. So, [00:53:00] so, so there is a lot of fun to be had and sort of the expanded universe retrofitting reconciling the things that came later with their absence or the, the, the, the discrepant. Uh, with this original film, I would argue the real problem comes when the films themselves have to retrofit to accommodate this film because it's supposed to be the films at least are supposed to be one cohesive narrative, but that again is something for, for another time.

[00:53:30] Any closing thoughts?

[00:53:31] Chris: I was really glad to, to, for the opportunity to revisit this. It's not something I, I don't know that I would've thought about it for at least another couple of years when I would want to introduce my son to it. So I don't, I don't know that I would've necessarily seen. And I'm still looking forward to that, but sitting down and trying to really isolate the movie from the context of the greater context of the Star Wars universe, um, it was an enjoyable experience.

[00:53:57] I think there's, there's a lot that does hold up. [00:54:00] Um, and for any critical, more critical thoughts that I had here. Um, I think again, just sort of coming back to, to, uh, comparing what I value now versus what I value then both in life and in the movie, um, It was a lot of, it was a lot of fun to actually sit and watch a movie that I had not sat down and really watched with some sort of ulterior motive thinking about the greater scheme of things I was.

[00:54:25] That was fun. So thanks. Thanks for the opportunity to, to riff on this, but, but also the, the homework assignment that was, that was enjoyable.

[00:54:32] James: Yeah, I agree. It was nice to come back and revisit it cause I'm not sure what I would have taken the time to like sit back and watch Star Wars. As a whole and just like enjoy it and, or try to like focus on it as, as a single entity. So I enjoyed the, um, the opportunity to, to have a reason to like, really look at it for the movie that it was.

[00:54:54] Cause, you know, when whatever things we've said here, where I've said here, [00:55:00] Picking it apart it's, you know, because I'm a fan of it that we, you know, we pick, we pick it apart and, uh, try to make it make sense. But it, you know, at the time when it came out, it, it revolutionized everything. It's like, you know, w why a lot of the things we enjoy in pop culture come from happened in this film.

[00:55:17] So it's, it's easy now and to pick it apart and to. To try to, you know, say why they do this and that, but when it came out, it was revolutionary. So, um, so I like looking at it through that and I appreciate, you know, having this time to like color this dissected.

[00:55:33] Josh: Well, thanks to both of you guys, Chris and James can be heard on a podcast of their own called Secret Origins, The Secret Origin of Mint Condition, which is about a comic shop where the three of us spent much of our youth and probably talked a lot about Star Wars 30 years ago. Uh, where can we find you guys?

[00:55:52] James: The Secret Origins of Mint Condition Facebook group, that's open for everyone to join. And we have Instagram, um, [00:56:00] SecretOriginsMC and, uh, email So, uh, so you, can find us all of those places.

[00:56:08] Josh: Well, thanks so much guys. It was really a pleasure. I love this movie. I love you guys. And I really wanted to start off this podcast at the beginning. And part of that was. Some of the people that I grew up with. Um, so thank you. And, uh, you will definitely be back again because like I said, there's always more Star Wars to talk about.

[00:56:28] Chris: So much, so much to talk about.

[00:56:30] James: I look forward to talking about. it.

[00:56:31] Josh: All right, guys, may the Force be with you. I'm going to have to come up with a closing, but may the Force be with you for now, will do fine.

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Sometimes I make things.

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Artist/Wellness Expert/Podcaster

Host of THE SECRET ORIGINS OF MINT CONDITION podcast, featuring the kinds of discussions you used to have in your local comic shop.