May 31, 2022

The Dark Times: OBI-WAN KENOBI Parts 1 & 2

The Dark Times: OBI-WAN KENOBI Parts 1 & 2

We get a taste of that old Star Wars magic...

Depressed heroes, Michael Caine's craft, and remaking Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope. It's our discussion of OBI-WAN KENOBI Parts 1 and 2.



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[00:00:00] Josh: Welcome to Trash Compactor, Obi Wan Kenobi reaction edition. I'm Josh and joining me here today is Bracey.

[00:00:08] Bracey: Heeeey.

[00:00:09] Josh: Yikes. Johnny.

[00:00:11] Jonny: Hello.

[00:00:12] Josh: Murray.

[00:00:13] Murray: Oh, hello.

[00:00:14] Josh: And on loan from our cousin podcast, The Secret Origins of Mint Condition, Chris.

[00:00:18] Chris: Hi there.

[00:00:19] Josh: today we're going to be discussing the first two episodes of the Disney plus series. Obi-Wan Kenobi, parts one and two. so let's get into it overall reactions. Bracey

[00:00:27] overall reactions, to these two episodes.

[00:00:29] Bracey: it's been a long time since I felt a very specific type of magic from star wars that I've been missing and, uh, this show kinda brought it back. Um, and so I really enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect, but it definitely added a new layer to the character and it, it, it left me with a special feeling and.

[00:00:51] Chris: that was nice Bracy. The, the, the chill that went up my spine was not as much as your introduction, but that was nice. I liked it. No, no, no. You're going to have to kill that voice. If I'm going to focus long enough to do this episode, man, I'm just saying,

[00:01:05] Josh: Chris overall reactions?

[00:01:06] Chris: yeah. You know, I, I really wanted to not be interested in this. And then I saw the trailer. Well, shit, this is the thing I think I'm going to enjoy. So I guess I have to watch it and, and I did. And, um, and honestly, I, I really, I really dug it overall. I agree with what Bracey said about feeling the magic of it.

[00:01:25] Um, I was excited to watch it and then I, I felt like it, it held up for a number of reasons, which I'm sure we'll we'll get into, but honestly, even the start screen, uh, on Disney plus with the POV behind the inquisitor of OB one looks bad-ass and just set the tone. I was like, ready to go when I saw that screen.

[00:01:42] Jonny: I think that's supposed to be Vader. Cause I think that's Vader's hilt.

[00:01:44] Chris: Oh, is it okay. So even,

[00:01:46] Jonny: to get too

[00:01:47] Chris: even better, I was honestly, I

[00:01:48] Murray: nerd alert.

[00:01:50] Chris: inquisitors is what sold me. As soon as I saw the inquisitors in the trailer, I'm like, oh fuck. They look so.

[00:01:55] Jonny: Yeah.

[00:01:57] Josh: So, yeah, cause you're a rebels guy, right?

[00:02:00] Chris: I am. I've watched clone wars, which took me a long time to get into because the animation bugged me. But, um, but once I did, I actually enjoyed the stories they were telling, Uh, once we got past or the first, first, you know, first two seasons or so. Um, and then yes, and then in rebels, um, that was the thing I ended up enjoying.

[00:02:18] There was some goofiness there too, but, but like ordinary star wars goofiness. So, um, so getting to learn a little bit more about the inquisitors was, was very exciting for me.

[00:02:27] Josh: Johnny overall react.

[00:02:29] Jonny: I thought it was great. Um, I think this is the heaviest thing that they've done since, uh, Revenge of the Sith and maybe some Kyla runs things. I don't know, but I just feel like I felt the weight of everything. Like this felt really important in a way that was beyond blowing up a space station. This felt important as in like, this is the way of our culture, you know?

[00:02:54] And, um, like the, everything was kind of at stake, um, philosophically I felt. And so to see obiwan and the th the stages of grief and denial and caution, like I thought that was brilliant. Um, I've always been interested in seeing what you and McGregor could do with like a much more of a character driven sort of OB one piece.

[00:03:20] This is exactly what we're getting. So I think it's great. And the fact that it's like, we're almost like, well, a third of the way done is this, like, we've watched two out of six episodes. So I thought, I thought the, I thought the pacing, this. Oh, fantastic. Uh, because I thought that, um, not a lot happened, but everything that did happen was important.

[00:03:42] And I felt like it was earning every moment that was building to the next one. So I was like, I wasn't floor, but I was like, oh, I am like really intrigued by what I'm watching. And I'm like, I'm so curious about what's going to happen next.

[00:03:59] Chris: I liked what you said about the heaviness. It's I don't, I can't think of star wars having done a, they sort of started to get into with, with Mandalorian and, and book of Boba Fett, but like, it's a post-war story. What do you do when the war has been lost? And there is like what you said the weight they're really, really, I think they handle it.

[00:04:18] Josh: So the interesting thing though, about the post-war story of Mando and Book of Boba Fett is it's the, post-war where the quote unquote good guys won. so what we're feeling here, and, , John, I really liked the way you articulated that. because I think you're exactly right there's a sense of desperation and, and a heaviness.

[00:04:38] And I think that that's, really reflected in the obiwan character in particular in episode one, but, , , Murray overall reactions.

[00:04:45] Murray: mean, I really liked it. I am a sucker for a like super depressed, uh, hero. It just like, because it's like, it speaks to me, but it's also like interesting because I always think of it like, whereas, um, this is from. losing a battle. But I even think of like, when I'm playing, like found fancy sevens, like what does cloud do now that he likes, saved the world?

[00:05:09] Like, what do you do then? And of course it's a different thing for, um, obiwan because he is, um, a lot more lost, but it's just like, so I'm such a sucker for a like existential crisis and like a hero where they're just trying to figure out, like, what are they doing? And it took me a while, even though like, I love that, but like when they did it, uh, for Luke, pardon me, should have loved that.

[00:05:36] Like, you know, for last should I, but I was like, so like heartbroken that my hero like was human type of thing. Um, but with, uh, obiwan, it just like that like took me in right away. Cause I was like, ah, this guy gets it. Like I like it. And it's interesting.

[00:05:50] Josh: So, well, that's interesting. I was actually getting Luke and last Jedi

[00:05:54] vibes from, from obiwan in that first episode in particular.

[00:05:59] Chris: Oh, a hundred percent. We, I liked that we sort of learn where maybe, maybe it'll be one imparted more on Luke than we thought for sure. I'm with you, Josh.

[00:06:07] Josh: no. Yeah, because I thought that exact same thing, the more so when I watched it the second time, like I really, , made the connection that, you just alluded to Chris where, You know, it's funny because one of the complaints about Luke's portrayal in the last Jedi is that, you know, they expected him to be like more of the obiwan figure and like he is now

[00:06:28] Chris: Yeah.

[00:06:29] Josh: so let's get into it.

[00:06:30] let's start at the beginning. I really enjoyed the pre-qual recap some things that I thought was actually very interesting was in the recap, they showed, the moment where I'm quite gone asks obiwan to train Anik and with his, final words, which surprised me, , because. Oh, you know, people who have talked about the prequels once or twice over the years, uh, you know, uh, one of the things, um, that often comes up is this idea about how that fact of that quite gone is the one who gets OB wants to train and Deakin. And that in fact, in the Phantom men is all we want, doesn't even want a train.

[00:07:12] And again,

[00:07:12] Murray: they also show, they also show the Yoda saying,

[00:07:15] Josh: Yes, exactly. Training. Yeah. Yes. Oh, which I'm

[00:07:19] about.

[00:07:20] Murray: would like to hear them almost like have it out, like, um, because being on the outline, finish the saga, we know that the prophecy is true. It was just offset, you know, like the fader did eventually bring balance to the force, you know, anagen, um, there, but like from where they're standing and they didn't.

[00:07:39] So I would love to have a scene between obiwan and Kwai gone, where instead of it's like, oh yes, master, it's kind of like questioning like, like

[00:07:47] Chris: like Lou question OB one's ghost.

[00:07:49] Murray: yeah.

[00:07:50] Jonny: sure. I also feel that. Go ahead, Chris.

[00:07:54] Chris: I was quickly, I was going to say actually that, that recap. Kind of made me a little sad because all I could think was what really made for me to recap work, is it retold the story of the clone wars from what we once perspective. And it made me think those prequels might've actually been so wildly different and maybe much more interesting if it had been OB one story guest, starring mannequin, as opposed to the other way.

[00:08:19] Josh: What this really feels like for me, this is sort of an alternate version of the saga, where if the followup to episode three wasn't star wars, a new hope that we all know, , but if this was episode four, but because it is kind of interesting just watching the prequels, it does feel like obiwan is the main character.

[00:08:36] He's the one that has the closest thing to like a hero's journey. And it's sort of like, how is he going to save his son, his brother, his, his friend. Right. and it's interesting because of like, sort of the backwards way the, star wars saga is told. It's like, I just feel like, you know, if you were writing them chronologically, you wouldn't then skip ahead and make it all about Luke, who we don't know, like you would be like, well, what happens to obiwan?

[00:09:08] Murray: Yeah,

[00:09:09] Chris: Sure.

[00:09:09] Josh: Um, Right after the recap, we start out with a flashback to order 66, ] at the very first shot. oh, we sent her on a girl, which I assume we're

[00:09:18] Jonny: I think it's Reva that river.

[00:09:20] Josh: right?

[00:09:21] Jonny: I think.

[00:09:22] Chris: It's either her or her sister. Yeah.

[00:09:25] Josh: I'm surprised Disney went ahead without even adding, you know, like a content warning at the beginning

[00:09:32] Chris: they

[00:09:32] Jonny: heard they

[00:09:33] Chris: They

[00:09:33] Jonny: a tiny one. Yeah. I saw, I saw on the internet that they added that tiny one somewhere, but I don't, I don't know where it

[00:09:40] Murray: Uh, yeah, I didn't see it, but

[00:09:42] Jonny: because I just saw stranger things as well. And they immediately, as your things were like, we have some graphic content that is disturbing and be warned and

[00:09:51] Bracey: And this was shot before the recent . Events

[00:09:53] Josh: yeah, right.

[00:09:55] Chris: it was, it was dropped with almost within 24 hours of them. Half of the shooting happening.

[00:09:59] Josh: Yeah. And

[00:09:59] Jonny: at that point they can't change.

[00:10:02] Josh: no. And especially because like, if that really is Riva, then this is an important part of her backstory that I'm sure is going to factor in later. So, so I don't think you can remove that without kind of unraveling the whole thing.

[00:10:15] Jonny: I was going to say that they're probably show more flashbacks or something like that to reveal who she is. And that's probably an integral to what she

[00:10:23] does.

[00:10:24] Murray: Just the, how cool that opening scene was that with the light saber glow, like, I don't know. That's like, I'm still not kind of like used to it. So when she's like fighting in the close quarter hallway, um, the Jedi that gets gunned down, like it was

[00:10:38] Jonny: And I think those were actual dudes in suits to the clone troopers. And I was like, oh, that's what they're supposed to look like.

[00:10:48] Murray: Oh, they look a lot scarier

[00:10:49] Bracey: feel

[00:10:50] Jonny: They like, they look way more intimidating. Whereas I do to Ms. Suit, you

[00:10:53] Chris: I'm looking forward to revisiting. Like in time. I I'll be honest. I actually totally forgot about the, until I was talking to our friend of the podcast, James, uh, I totally forgot about that first thing. Cause it, the, the Tuesday hit me, so, so hard that by the time I watched it, I, I, somehow I watched the scene and then I just completely forgot about it.

[00:11:13] So I'm looking forward to revisiting it because I thought it looked great, but like, it was a really rough week for me personally. So I'm looking forward to going back and like admiring scene instead of just reacting to it in a visceral way.

[00:11:24] Josh: you touched upon something interesting, Chris, and I know,, you guys had an episode of secret origins that. I was a guest on where, we were discussing the redemption of Darth Vader

[00:11:35] Chris: Yeah.

[00:11:35] Josh: and, one of the things for James that I think. really makes Vader slash Annika and irredeemable is that scene where we see him about to murder a room full of kids.

[00:11:46] Right. It's not shying away from the horror of what that is. It's actually leading into it. It's showing more kids and, and, and showing, what was happening there. So, I feel like what this show is doing that, you know, the mainline star wars movies, I don't know if they can really get into in the same way as I really feel like they're dealing in a moral, bleak way, the implications of the dark shit that actually happened in those movies.

[00:12:14] Bracey: yeah.

[00:12:15] Josh: Um,

[00:12:17] Chris: with you I think, you know, um, in, for me personally, in the revenge of the Sith, it feels like a little bit like, okay, what's the worst thing he can do that makes him, that would make him fall to the dark side. We'll have him kill kids. And I think that happens in a lot of storytelling is like, okay, what's the worst thing that we can do when that's how you see sort of like you end up seeing things like characters committing like genocide or racist acts or like sexual violence.

[00:12:44] Like how do we make this, make it clear, this person's a villain. Right? Um, it doesn't feel like that in, I mean, yes, continuity is important for the episode, but in the episode, at least, you know what, I'm what I can remember from the scene. It's just, it's done really well. And it feels like an organic part of the story rather than they did it for shock value.

[00:13:02] No, this is part of the narrative and I can respect and appreciate that as opposed to trying to blindside somebody even before.

[00:13:09] Josh: So we'll also, so we'll also not only that. So if we're just sort of accepting that this is the backstory of the Reva character than what the show was actually showing us, is it showing us , how that trauma, shapes the child for the rest of their

[00:13:24] Murray: But yes, one quick question though, is, we have to also assume that if it is that she's been lied to because she says anagen Skywalker's name. And so if anagen is the one that killed all the. Young Ling's like, why would you join them?

[00:13:42] Bracey: Well, I mean, it's, it is the dark side one.

[00:13:45] Murray: you get what I'm saying?

[00:13:45] Bracey: and I don't think you're, I don't

[00:13:48] Chris: I going to say

[00:13:49] Bracey: sorry.

[00:13:50] Chris: no, I was saying I'm a hundred percent with you. Bracey that's what I was going to say. So please keep it.

[00:13:54] Bracey: Yeah. I, I don't, I don't think that that's something that I, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to the show potentially proving me wrong, but I don't feel like when you get to that point where you're like, oh, the PA like, you know, we celebrate power here. He was powerful. He took out all these other Jedi and they were weak.

[00:14:10] And I believe in this power structure now, I don't see that as a bad thing. I, I, I have

[00:14:15] Murray: Well, I, I guess, yeah, I guess what I'm wondering is like how you would make the leap because you would, why would you join the side of the purse? Like

[00:14:27] the side that.

[00:14:28] Jonny: a, I feel like she's a young child there. So what would happen is they'll probably take her under capture and through years of indoctrination and training and brainwashing, she'll become Riva. You

[00:14:41] Murray: Yeah.

[00:14:42] Jonny: it's not like it's not like that happens. And then Wednesday, she was like, cool, I'm a bad guy.

[00:14:46] Which is kind of like what happened with that with anagen in the movie.

[00:14:49] Bracey: Yeah. That's what happened then again, in the movies, but what gives me hope here is how, how beautifully they poetically show that whole moment in time. Like if you watch it, there's only two shots. It's like the first one where they, uh, they're practicing. And then all of a sudden they're getting attack.

[00:15:06] And then all of a sudden, the cameras switches outside of that room after that whole first battle.

[00:15:10] And if all those, the moment, and then what you watch, the last thing that you see is the kids are running up this, this runway that the light sabers are being extinguished

[00:15:22] out, like on the side. So it's like so beautifully visually telling you.

[00:15:28] What happened. And what was the context of these kids? Even if you haven't seen that movie, which gives me hope. It's like, if you can tell that in two shots, would you took like George Lucas, like three movies to fail itself, like selling? Um, like then I think I, you know, you got, I I'm I'm on board. What, what, where are we

[00:15:47] Josh: the bow shots fired shots

[00:15:49] Jonny: way more. It's very poetic.

[00:15:51] Josh: Yeah. so, we touched on it a little bit, but, what do we think about, how we find we and, how we meet him in this?

[00:15:59] Yeah.

[00:15:59] Jonny: Um, I'm with Mary. I love it. I think, I think if suits the character, um, if he is what they saying, he is, which is laying low and not trying to draw attention to himself, he would do something like salt of the earth. Matter of fact job, you know, he wouldn't become like the town shaman or a doctor, which would bring your touch and you'd just be like a cog in a machine.

[00:16:21] And, um, and yet again, a little bit of that weirdness of that, I always love and star wars because like, what is he doing? They're carving like meat cubes out of a giant sand manta Ray.

[00:16:31] Murray: Yeah. Yup.

[00:16:32] Jonny: That's been long dead. I was like, that's cool. They don't explain what it is or

[00:16:36] Murray: I know. I love it.

[00:16:38] Jonny: That's just, that's just where the meat comes

[00:16:39] from. And I think that's, that's

[00:16:41] Chris: it. I'm so appreciative. They didn't bother like telling us the story of this beast and what it is or what it means.

[00:16:48] Murray: Yeah. That's the thing. Just let star wars like be a weird, like a weird lived in environment that everybody, everybody would know that that's what's going on. How just how we know how we get our meat and stuff like that. So it would, no one would need to talk about it unless they're like a vegan or something like

[00:17:04] Jonny: And, and there's great moments in the scenes where you see the, you see that the workers are going to be ripped off and OB one looks concerned, but he doesn't do anything. And then when he's, when he's in the cave and the Java rips him off, he's really polite to the jaw, even though the jaw was ripping him off and like, and so you see, like you see OB ones like elegance still, and his compassion still coming through.

[00:17:29] Even though he's in a situation where he can't really do much about it.

[00:17:33] Murray: Yeah. That's what I love the conflict of him wanting to do the right thing. And, but knowing that he can't, because he's got a much bigger task at hand, that's more important for him to like lay low.

[00:17:47] Chris: and I actually, it's funny. I didn't even think when I was watching him, I didn't even think that he was wanting to necessarily do something about it. It looked more like, an instinct that sort of needed to be shoved down,

[00:17:58] Josh: yeah. right.

[00:17:58] Murray: Yup.

[00:17:59] Chris: like, I didn't, I didn't get the impression that he necessarily wanted to get involved so much as this is what he's always done.

[00:18:05] And in the prequels we see, he's always

[00:18:07] Jonny: Well, that's,

[00:18:08] Chris: kind of impulse.

[00:18:08] Josh: literally, he literally an attack of the clones, like at the first sign of, danger. He literally jumps out a window.

[00:18:14] Chris: yeah.

[00:18:16] Jonny: And this is what they talk about when the inquisitor is like, it's like an itch, you know, like they have to scratch this itch to help people

[00:18:24] and you get, like, I agree with you, Chris. He feels compelled to help. He doesn't know this guy. It's not like, he's not in love with him. He's just like, he's like, this is wrong and you feel it.

[00:18:33] He's just like, he's pushing himself down. Like, don't do anything

[00:18:36] Chris: And he doesn't give the food to the guy. He doesn't give his wages to the guy. He never interacts with that guy again. Right. Like he keeps this distance.

[00:18:43] Murray: Yeah.

[00:18:44] Jonny: It's not, like on a human level. It's like on a level where I'm, it is human in a way, but it's more of like an injustice level,

[00:18:50] Chris: yes, yes,

[00:18:52] Murray: Yeah. I feel that it was, I don't know. I, I saw it like more of a conflict. Like keeping that, that itch down, but I'm sure that maybe I just like projected too much into it, but

[00:19:06] Chris: no, no, no.

[00:19:07] Murray: the,

[00:19:07] the the complexity of seeing like horrors, but like, you can't do anything about

[00:19:13] Jonny: yeah.

[00:19:14] It's Nazi Germany basically, you

[00:19:15] Murray: yeah,

[00:19:17] Josh: the other thing too, is that like, as a viewer

[00:19:19] you want, they'll be wanting to do something it's like,

[00:19:21] Murray: yeah,

[00:19:22] Josh: so like, so, so you understand it, you feel it. it's not only his edge. It's also your inch.

[00:19:27] Jonny: watched that scene earlier today. I wanted to guys like, you have a problem with this. And I said, out loud, you don't even know, dude,

[00:19:33] Josh: Yeah.

[00:19:34] Jonny: you have no idea. Like the thunder, you could be calling the dock down upon yourself right now, but it's like, but that's, what's great about it because he has no choice. He has

[00:19:44] Josh: I want to go back and talk a second about that thing that the grand inquisitor does say

[00:19:50] Jonny: He's great.

[00:19:51] Josh: that line that he says when he's in the bar and they used it in the trailer, the first trailer, he, um, He says, they're compassionate leaves a trail. And, I dunno if he says it in that scene. but somebody says later, uh, the way you hunt Jedi's you let them hunt themselves or something to that

[00:20:11] Chris: He says it in that scene. He says, when he, when he says, do you know what, who do you know who we are? The bartender says, you know what we do when he says you want Jedi? He says, well, I would say that the Jedi hunt themselves.

[00:20:21] Josh: Yeah.

[00:20:22] yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah. So, but

[00:20:24] Chris: dug that whole philosophical. I like Jedi cannot help what they are. I appreciate him saying the scene.

[00:20:30] I liked that Riva ends the dissertation. Like it was a nice balance of, okay. that.

[00:20:34] was a good speech. Okay. But now let's, let's get going.

[00:20:37] Murray: And it shows the discord growing between that, the discourse there.

[00:20:41] Jonny: You know, uh, coincidentally, uh, tragically, uh, Ray Liotta died recently, so it makes, it made me want to go back and watch Goodfellas because of that. And, um, I really do think that, uh, Riva is the Joe Peshy of the group where it's like, even though they're on the same side, she's a psychotic wild person that they can't control.

[00:21:02] And so he's like, all right, bring her back for, bring him back for interrogation. And she literally tries to chop them in half in the incident and he

[00:21:09] stopped,

[00:21:09] Josh: one's really cool

[00:21:10] Jonny: I know. And th and they're like, what the fuck are you doing?

[00:21:15] Chris: And she's still trying, even when he's, she's still.

[00:21:18] Murray: So,

[00:21:19] Jonny: like, they are bad guys. They're they're evil, but even they Herald, like, dude, there's like, protocol know, like we have to like talk to him.

[00:21:27] He might know where other Jedi are. Yada, yada, yada, you can't just chop off everybody's head because you feel like it,

[00:21:33] Bracey: Absolutely. But this, this maybe it's because of the times, but this, this whole scene, um, one magically began the painting of the feeling that I was looking for, that I spoke about it at the opening of this is just like that feeling that I feel was painted in a new hope where obiwan was like before the dark times before the empire.

[00:21:56] And I had been longing to get the sense of what that feeling was. And then lo and behold, I was like, oh, it feels a lot like now 20, 22, like, you know, like, like the reason that they haunt themselves is because they still care about something better than the way that it is currently. And like they, and if they're going to, if they're willing to stick their neck out in, in this shit storm, like we're going

[00:22:24] to

[00:22:25] find them. I wanna

[00:22:26] know is.

[00:22:27] Josh: Exactly.

[00:22:27] They stand out.

[00:22:28] Murray: Yeah,

[00:22:29] Bracey: And that's it. That means you're in some dark times and it's like, God dammit. Why is this? Have to be so good and so bad.

[00:22:37] Murray: yeah. Um, imagine living at a time where like, everything's just like everyone's against each other and being kind to seen as a weakness, man. That would be, that'd be horrible to be

[00:22:47] Chris: can't even. Yeah. It feels like some sort of scifi book,

[00:22:49] Murray: Yeah.

[00:22:50] Chris: That's

[00:22:51] Josh: Yeah.

[00:22:52] Jonny: you imagine

[00:22:53] Murray: Yeah. And there's no trust all men. That's I have a question for, I want to say Chris, because he's the, the resident, um, rebels and clone wars watcher.

[00:23:03] Right. Um, so to my understanding, like. You could use the force, but not be like associated with the light or the dark side. Right. Because in the dark, like in only supposed to have to sift, which is like kind of weird that it was like two people versus like everybody, and

[00:23:24] Josh: Yeah.

[00:23:24] Murray: this is what we,

[00:23:25] Jonny: th those are just titles?

[00:23:27] Josh: are.

[00:23:29] Chris: Yeah. They're not, they're not set so you

[00:23:30] Murray: no, but that's what I'm saying. Like, so, but you can, like, you be a forced user. That's not associated with

[00:23:38] Chris: Right? It's yeah.

[00:23:40] Murray: party.

[00:23:41] Chris: you don't no.

[00:23:41] no, you're absolutely right, because it was, it was binary for a long time. And then it's and I, and at some point, I dunno when I'm sure it was done in the books before the series were done, because I had heard the term gray Jedi before, which

[00:23:53] Murray: Oh,

[00:23:53] Chris: some, uh, forced user who can use, but who will use both sides of the force, um, excuse me.

[00:23:59] But. But yeah. they get into it in, in clone wars, they get into it in rebels. Um, because by the time spoiler alert the time Maul comes back, um, he is no longer a set because he's been replaced. So now he's just this, this outcast, this force user, um, you also have the witches of death, Amir, that they also use the force, but not necessarily the light or dark side, their own sort of force magic hens

[00:24:27] Murray: Cool. Yeah.

[00:24:28] Chris: Um,

[00:24:29] Jonny: w

[00:24:29] Chris: go ahead.

[00:24:30] Jonny: you know, guy, Chris, you, you explained it cause you're the expert. And then I'll

[00:24:32] Chris: No, no, no, no, no. By all means, jump in, jump in.

[00:24:35] Jonny: Well, I was going to say like the way I kind of see it as this, like, uh, their titles and the, just like, there could only be one president, one vice president of the United States that can only be two Seth, whatever, but other people are politicians and the people that can use the force and the way just going from the movies, the way that I kind of understand the force is that, um, it's a

[00:24:55] Murray: in your blood.

[00:24:56] Jonny: There you go. It's a spectrum. But if you start getting tempted with dark side abilities and, um, inspirations, it's kind of like a black hole that sucks. You win. That's like hard to get away from. And it can override everything. It's like, it's like people that can dabble with like hard drugs and eventually the drug is going to take over, you know?

[00:25:18] So I, I like, yeah, like I feel like there is like a, we kind of think of things like lightning is a dark side power and whatever is whatever, but I just think it's much more of like a, the lightning is on the bad side of the spectrum. It's like dealing with hard shit. And if you, if you use it more than you should, or you, or you even at all, you could just go straight down that path and not ever come back from that path

[00:25:45] Bracey: I always saw it as just like, I was just saw it as a metaphor for power. And are you using that metaphor that, that power for your own benefit or you using it for the benefit of, of, of the

[00:25:56] Murray: Alright.

[00:25:56] Chris: And then you have people who are disillusioned.

[00:26:00] Murray: what was throwing me off in that scene. I mean, I have see like put the two ends together real quick, but I was just like the fact that, cause I've never, um, encountered an inquisitor in my star wars, um, travels, but the,

[00:26:13] Josh: I thought you meant like in real life,

[00:26:14] Jonny: I know it's better than you phrase it that way. It's great.

[00:26:18] Murray: And so, um, so that w like threw me for a little bit of a loop where I was like, yeah. They'll know.

[00:26:24] Chris: because a soca also, she says it in. And I can't remember if it was I think it's book a Boba Fett, but maybe it's Mandalorian. No, it's Mandalorian when she says I'm not a Jedi. And That's because of what happens during the clone wars, the series a is that she becomes disillusioned with the Jedi.

[00:26:39] So I think, you know, when you're, when we're starting to get into is the nuance of, um, not just titles, but what are your beliefs? Uh, you have these people who get disillusioned with their religion, whether their religion is power. So Maul becomes disillusioned and he starts trying to sabotage Palpatine.

[00:26:55] Despite the fact that he sees the genius of the plan in order 66 and getting the Jedi to destroy themselves with the grand army of the Republic, or you have a soca on the other side, who goes, I've given everything to the. And now they're trying to take everything away from me and you know what, even the one cleared in the end, this is not the path that I want to walk.

[00:27:15] This is, you know, so, so there's, there's a lot of nuance that they've sort of introduced in

[00:27:20] Murray: awesome.

[00:27:21] Jonny: it's like a, a lapsed Catholic or like a wandering Ronan,

[00:27:25] Chris: Yeah. There you go.

[00:27:26] Jonny: has a, uh, no longer has a samurai clan

[00:27:29] Murray: Yeah. Cool. Cool.

[00:27:31] Josh: I want to talk about uncle Owen really briefly that scene, that, um, that also, uh, turned into a pretty funny meme, um, yeah, with the sick burn, the, um,

[00:27:40] Chris: I got to look this up.

[00:27:41] Josh: his father. in that scene, where you in McGregor, sounding very much like the Alec Guinness, Obi wan Kenobi, , there's more to life that y'all far Moe and, he said something like, you know, we've talked about this.

[00:27:52] He must be trained and. and Owen's like lucky trained his father. and it's been turned into a meme where,

[00:27:58] Jonny: basically the audience is like, oh shit,

[00:28:01] Chris: that's, good. I don't know how much you practice that, but that was, that was good.

[00:28:04] Jonny: Three hours a day in the mirror.

[00:28:06] Josh: yeah, three hours a day. you know, what else is, is, is really interesting about that, star wars, Twitter, like young star wars, Twitter, you know, people for whom, the prequels and the cartoons from the two thousands are the real root of their fandom.

[00:28:20] they were casting Owen as like a villain in that scene, which I think is like, yeah, which I think is like really crazy, because the only way to read, to read Owen as a villain in that scene is if, you have zero capacity to recognize, nuance of any kind in any situation.

[00:28:35] Chris: that's part of, you know, part of youth is having difficulty seeing nuance. We, I

[00:28:40] think that a lot of us, as we get older, we see, you know, we see more.

[00:28:44] Josh: I

[00:28:44] Bracey: only, not only that like, uh, uh, we're coming from like the, all the lessons that led to the moment. Like we know all the context, I was one this, I got to say, I started watching this with my daughters, and this is the very first time they're actually hooked on anything star wars I've been trying for a long

[00:29:04] Murray: Nice, Dave. Nice.

[00:29:06] Bracey: episodes for whatever reason pulled them in. And, uh, uh, they, I mean, I think they can connect with the idea of like, Hey, I want super powers. Like anybody who would stand in my way of giving these super powers, like,

[00:29:21] Josh: No, that's a fair

[00:29:21] Bracey: the, the bad guy and that's, and that's the lens in which they're looking at this.

[00:29:25] I would, I would argue that the lens of somebody young looking at this would

[00:29:30] Jonny: sure. It's like when you watch a new hope, because a new and a new hope, you know, mark, mark Hamill was like, I want to join the academy and do something great with my life. And I was like, you know, you guys stick in the farm and like do moisture, whatever. And as kids we're like, boom, uncle. Oh, and what it's like, no.

[00:29:45] He's trying to save his son from joining the Nazi empire. Like, like he's being a good guardian, you know,

[00:29:53] Josh: I actually stand corrected, uh, Bracey and Chris make excellent points.

[00:29:56] Chris: Can I say though it was such, it was so for me, such a cool moment to watch as OB one, watched Luke pretend to be a pilot. And in that moment, will we want to look so old? he looks so old in that moment that I just, I don't, I don't know. Like, I don't know. It just, it felt really satisfying to me to see him in that moment.

[00:30:16] Just be so old watching Luke and I could just, was just felt like a very weighty moment.

[00:30:21] Jonny: I think there's a seed for that too, because, um, I don't know if I think it comes before this, but when he's in the cave and he's calling out the quiet gun and quiet gun, doesn't answer, uh, this is a man without a family and quiet gun was probably the closest thing he had to a father.

[00:30:36] And so I feel like he's really grasping on to uncle owned and Luke's family as a, like, like a surrogate uncle sort of thing, you know? And he's just like, he's there, like in the scene with uncle Owen is instigated because he tries to give Luke a toy. Like, there's something very sad about that because the toy has nothing to do with.

[00:30:57] It's all about attachment to someone. It's all about making the little boy feel good. It's all about making OB one feel good, you know, and uncle, I one's like, fuck this shit. And so like, I feel like this is theirs, but I'm just saying like the, the, the weightiness of like old OB one, looking through the binoculars and all this, it's like, there's, there's a, there's a family thing going on here.

[00:31:20] The OB one's on the outside looking in. And it's something that he never had and he never does have, you

[00:31:26] Murray: it's also possible that, um, obiwan needs that for himself. Like not just the family aspect, but also like reminding him why he's on this course that he's on, which is just like lonely and depressing. And it's like, um, he has this itch to do good, but he can't, and he's got to have a, like, it's almost like reminding him like, no, this is why I do this.

[00:31:52] This is why I have to live this shit life. Because like, This is my mission. This is like the promise I made this, you know, so I think, um, that too, but if you guys will permit me just a little bit, because there's something that Johnny said, um, when, um, obiwan is crying out for quiet gone, and it, like, it re that seemed really hits me because like, as I said, I love the, like the press aspect of heroes and stuff.

[00:32:18] And one of the reasons is, um, and we don't have to stay on this topic very long, but like every hero in the Bible is like super depressed all the time. And even if they do great things like such as like obiwan has done like super great things, um, powerful things, but like when they're like alone and the dust is settled, they get like really depressed and lonely.

[00:32:40] And oftentimes they want to like, be like, pray like for death too. But so like that hit me and then him obiwan being alone, crying out for quiet, who is kind of like his. His master and stuff like that, that has that very same feeling of like Jesus in the garden, crying, like, you know, like being like, Hey dad, if you could like, not let me have to do this or not be alone.

[00:33:05] Like, why do I have to like, be by myself and all that? So it like really hit me. And again, the, the sucker depressed, the sucker for depressed hero, but that's like, what that reminiscent to me. And that's just my projections. I'm not saying this like an allegory or a metaphor or anything, but it just seems like that's, that's where I go of like, you have a law student, like a lost son, like a loss every, and you just like, why?

[00:33:29] Like, why am I living this shit life right now?

[00:33:32] Jonny: Hey, I think that works, man. I think, I think that there's a level of that. I mean, like you and McGregor did literally play Jesus in the movie

[00:33:39] Murray: Yes

[00:33:39] Jonny: and, um, and

[00:33:40] Murray: a good one.

[00:33:42] Jonny: I never see, is it good? I really want to watch

[00:33:43] Murray: It's good. It's boring, but it's good.

[00:33:46] Jonny: but that's fine. But, uh, but you know, like you can't have, uh, a

[00:33:51] Josh: like it's bad.

[00:33:52] Murray: No, no, no. Like it's like Phyllis, it's more philosophical. So it's like, it's interesting, but it's like, nothing happens. It's just Jesus alone in the

[00:34:01] Bracey: and

[00:34:01] Chris: Just not the kind of movie that can get a job.

[00:34:04] Murray: Yeah. It's a, he's just alone in the desert for like 40 days. That's the whole point of it. So

[00:34:09] Jonny: uh, but most people have heard us. What's the name of the movie.

[00:34:12] Murray: that's a very good question. Uh, I'll

[00:34:14] Jonny: people I've had to have at least heard of a story about Jesus being in the desert, having a moment of doubt. So it's like, I'll be ones literally in a desert calling out to spiritual beings and being like help me and no one's helping them.

[00:34:30] And he's like, uh, so like there is definitely an allegory there, you know, to be

[00:34:34] Josh: Yeah, no, there was something in that moment. just like hearing this older version of obiwan, say Kwai Gunn's name, you know, I found very effective, very moving.

[00:34:44] Chris: Because I

[00:34:44] Murray: It's called last days in the desert, by the way, last days in the

[00:34:48] Chris: You know, he wasn't, he wasn't ready for the trials. Uh, he still, you know, when,

[00:34:52] Josh: that's, that's also interesting because they did show that moment as well.

[00:34:58] Chris: And how could he not question whether or not he was ready since he failed his master. He failed the Jedi order. He failed Anik and his brother, you know, like, so, so it makes sense to me that, that at this point now he'd be looking for guidance. Like how does he not take that all onto his shoulders, much the way that again, Luke takes it all the, the fall of the Jedi on his, onto his shoulders and decides that he'd, he'd rather be a martyr than, than anything else.

[00:35:22] It's, it's interesting because I personally, it's hard for me to not look at these, these, these, uh, we keep seeing, especially because of star wars and because of so much star wars fandom, we keep seeing these, these white heroes, these white male heroes coming in to save the day and, and to the credit of the writers, you know, fucking it up. Um, so to me, there's also an element of, of, okay, so it didn't work and now taking it particularly hard because you went in there with a, with a savior complex, right? So. Like, I don't know that that's necessarily how it was written. I don't think that's necessarily how it's supposed to be taken or anything.

[00:36:01] It's just hard for me to not, to not see that because, because specifically of the fandom that experiences this, the fandom, the part of the fandom that, that hated Luke, because the real Luke quote, unquote never would have acted this way. Quote, unquote, real OB one, wouldn't have done this, you know, that sort of thing.

[00:36:19] It's hard for me to not see, you know, him feeling very, very sorry for himself And feeling a little bit, a little bit misunderstood because he came in to be the savior and was quite the opposite.

[00:36:30] Murray: And another thing too, like when he, if he said that he's not ready for the trials and everyone's like, no, you're you're ready. Trust me. You're better than you are. Like what? That's, self-doubts never gonna leave him. Like I'm, unless I'm like a, an exception to that where like that imposter syndrome, like never leaves like, so anything is always going to bring that up for him.

[00:36:52] And then this is like the complete, um, like everything he feared basically has happened, that he'd just failed everybody. And so he's going to be thinking

[00:37:01] like, even more so than I failed, but like, it's, like, I knew I wasn't ready for this.

[00:37:06] Josh: That actually, gives me a thought because the worst thing for someone. who's depressed is to spend time alone. Do not have anyone to talk to. And all obiwan has is nothing, but time is all alone in that cave. No wonder he's, he's screaming at the jawa for stealing his thing because he wants him to come back and talk to

[00:37:25] Chris: Yeah.

[00:37:26] Murray: That's true. That's huge. Yeah,

[00:37:28] Jonny: why, why that, that might be one of my favorite moments of the both episodes is his interaction with Tika. Because when he's like, oh, you have a problem with the vaporizer thing here has this. And he's like, geez, if you're going to steal from me, can you please clean it? And even like stutters a little bit, like is such a good like character acting moment.

[00:37:46] And like, but at the same time, if he had a tea kettle, he would've put it on for him, you know, after he realized he'd be like, oh Jesus, you want some tea? You know? Like I get to see them, like you want to hang out for, but you want to have, did you watch this new episode

[00:37:58] Murray: Yeah, please. Don't go.

[00:37:59] Jonny: like Josh, like he probably wants to hang out with him just to have some company, you know,

[00:38:04] Josh: Yeah. Moving on to Alderaan. and, ten-year old layout. What are we think of

[00:38:08] Murray: Yeah. Loved

[00:38:09] Chris: so

[00:38:10] Murray: It's surprise. I didn't see any other trailers. So that surprised the shit out of me. I was like,

[00:38:14] Josh: she wasn't in

[00:38:15] Jonny: she

[00:38:15] Murray: Oh, okay. Awesome. So surprise everybody.

[00:38:17] Chris: How do we know was a really nice red herring. If this is a story I'm thrilled.

[00:38:22] Murray: Oh yeah. I mean the whole time I was watching it, like, I was like, oh, that's a lovely planet you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.

[00:38:29] Like you don't like it. I'm like, I really do think though, like that they are amplifying like all the goodness of it because subconsciously you're like, oh my God. Like,

[00:38:39] Chris: Yeah. It's

[00:38:40] Jonny: Yeah. I was like, I would live there. That looks

[00:38:42] Murray: yeah.

[00:38:42] Chris: I was happy to see layup, but as soon as I saw Les, it was maybe two seconds before I was going, Jimmy Smith's give us some Jimmy

[00:38:48] Murray: Yeah,

[00:38:49] Chris: I was so happy to see him again.

[00:38:50] Bracey: I thought, I just thought the realization of that city like that, the city, that planet, uh, oh, it was beautiful and alluring. And I was like, this is, this is great. This is like, now I'm starting to hunger for other planets in a way that I hadn't, because.

[00:39:08] Chris: Well-put

[00:39:09] Bracey: were either besides desert, they were rainy and dark

[00:39:13] and night, like, you know, most of the time it's at night

[00:39:15] Chris: or icy was monsters,

[00:39:17] Bracey: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:19] Jonny: usually one environment.

[00:39:21] Murray: yeah.

[00:39:21] Bracey: yeah,

[00:39:22] Chris: right? Yeah.

[00:39:23] Josh: well,

[00:39:24] Jonny: also, uh, flee.

[00:39:26] Murray: flee. Yeah.

[00:39:28] Chris: Yes.

[00:39:29] Murray: It was

[00:39:29] weird.

[00:39:31] Josh: and you want to know what he was? He was perfect.

[00:39:34] Murray: No, it was great.

[00:39:35] Josh: he was so good as that

[00:39:36] Jonny: Yeah.

[00:39:37] Murray: Yeah. And he believes in nothing Lebowski, nothing. Yeah.

[00:39:42] Josh: Yeah.

[00:39:43] Bracey: also just loved that. Like for him, I had always felt like when they hydrated the food, that it was like, uh, uh, back to the future reference, like, like, you know how to hydrate a

[00:39:54] Murray: Yeah. Yeah. Ray does that too, but yeah.

[00:39:56] Bracey: yeah, rain does that. And the first time I saw that, I was like, oh, she's hydrating her food. And like, they, they showed, uh, obiwan do this in his cave.

[00:40:04] And I was like, he he hydrated his stew and, and, and then, uh, flea was there. I was like this two references in.

[00:40:13] Josh: What are you? Chicken? Um,

[00:40:15] Murray: Well, it was weird that he was just wearing a sock in his whole scene. Right. That's it just one sock, but yeah, I thought that was a weird choice at the director . May, but.

[00:40:23] Josh: the other thing also is that, they found the perfect thing that would justify OB one, leaving Tatooine is if you threaten Leia

[00:40:31] Jonny: yeah.

[00:40:31] Murray: And it also makes sense. Yeah. In the new hope why she would be like, everything's lost the only person I know to turn to is

[00:40:40] Chris: She has a relationship with him? No,

[00:40:42] I thought that was beautifully done. I'm really excited that this isn't all just him on tattooing and watching Luke. Um, I thought it was like, it was just, it was a really, really nice for me, a really nice misdirection and the, the actor who played Layo was just delightful.

[00:40:58] She

[00:40:59] Josh: Yeah, she was phenomenal.

[00:41:00] Murray: nailing it. Yeah,

[00:41:01] Josh: uh, her dialogue was phenomenal.

[00:41:04] Chris: Well, and it did this, um, it did this really,

[00:41:07] Josh: the

[00:41:08] Chris: nice, uh,

[00:41:10] Josh: and young layer. I mean, like I just thought it was so funny and lovely and kind of heartbreaking, like, especially the moment, where Obi-Wan's like, you remind me of someone who is also a, you know,

[00:41:20] Chris: because, and I thought this was a nice nod to, to the fact that she's a force user, because she is intuiting people's emotions. Like she's still act silly, like a, like a child. And she's still curious and maybe mistrustful, but she has these moments of insight where she's saying things like you think the less, you say the less you give away or the way she says to her cousin, and you're just, you're afraid, like it's, it's these four, these force insights that can be explained away as like, she's just a very sensitive child, but

[00:41:51] is a forced sensitive child.

[00:41:52] Murray: Yeah, no, it's great. And

[00:41:54] she,

[00:41:55] Josh: like you're Ted.

[00:41:56] Jonny: Yeah. thought that seeing a perfectly illustrates both of those characters, like Alec Guinness obiwan and Carrie Fisher, princess

[00:42:05] Chris: Yeah.

[00:42:05] Jonny: you know, like I saw both of those older actors from the previous generation in their bodies in that scene. It was so weird.

[00:42:13] Yeah.

[00:42:13] Murray: because the way she's acting.

[00:42:15] Bracey: until this moment. I didn't appreciate like, oh yeah. I needed to know why princess. Just like able to say help me Obi-Wan and, and, and know that this is the person that she can trust. I realized I hadn't ever had the, like that. I never really had that question

[00:42:34] Murray: no, it's also.

[00:42:35] Bracey: relationship?

[00:42:36] It was like, oh, this is ripe for the picking. This has.

[00:42:39] Murray: The girl's great because she definitely seems like how now OB wants seems like, oh no, this is the person that, that grows into Alec. And it's like, this is the, this girl is, will grow up to like the very first thing she says to the person rescuing her is like, you're short, aren't you? Like, you know, like, that's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so like, I was like, no, this little kid grows up to be like someone that says that when they're rescued, like, uh, you're a little short to be a storm trooper, you know? Like it's like, I love it.

[00:43:12] Jonny: the, yeah, th th the sass was out of control

[00:43:14] Murray: Yeah, yeah,

[00:43:15] Jonny: you know, and also she's a princess and she has the force sensitivity, like you said, Chris. So everything about her personality made sense. Like, everything was just like, this is exactly how a girl with her abilities and her background and influence would ask you to act just like that.

[00:43:33] And I thought that was a great,

[00:43:35] Chris: still makes time to thank the droids.

[00:43:38] Murray: Yeah.

[00:43:38] Josh: yes.

[00:43:39] Bracey: Yeah. Yeah. I

[00:43:40] love

[00:43:40] Josh: little. Yeah.

[00:43:41] I love

[00:43:41] Bracey: But are we, are we part way into the

[00:43:44] Chris: Sorry. That was my fault. I, a hundred

[00:43:46] percent did

[00:43:47] Josh: no, no, no, no, no, no, So, so, so just, uh, one final thing about the first episode, toward the end, you know, when obiwan decides that, he is, , going to go off planet, , and rescue Leah. he goes into the, desert to dig up his lightsaber and he buried it with aniguns lightsaber.

[00:44:02] Murray: I thought that was

[00:44:03] awesome.

[00:44:04] Josh: not only was that awesome, that really moved me.

[00:44:07] So, because, Because it's sort of like, not only did Annika die on that day, but so did obiwan in a

[00:44:12] Murray: Yeah.

[00:44:13] Josh: and now he's realizing he's learning actually, neither one of them are really dead.

[00:44:18] Jonny: well, it's, it's funny. You mentioned that because I noticed in the chest, there's only his lightsaber Nanigans, but not quite guns. And I thought to myself, like had his path and he died a Valiant. And it's the end of it. So I could, I could easily see him getting rid of the lightsaber, but with, uh, holding on to his and aniguns, to me, that's the story is not over it to me.

[00:44:43] That's hope so. He's like, I have to hold on to my lightsaber because I'm probably going to need it again. One day

[00:44:49] is like, And I'm holding

[00:44:50] Josh: it comes back to me.

[00:44:50] Jonny: and no, and I'm holding them. My buddies be like, well, I think he knows, he thinks aniguns dead, but Luke still needs to grow up. And it's like, I need to pass this onto his son when he's ready to train.

[00:45:02] So both of those lightsabers are forward-thinking whereas not having quiet guns, lightsaber, it's like, he's gone. We don't need it. It's done. You know? And so it was poignant. And yet I think it still showed his state of mind of like, thinking about the possible future of maybe having some hope

[00:45:19] Josh: And it also says something that, that, that he, he buried them. So he, he buried the hope.

[00:45:25] Murray: It's very like John wick ask, um, you know, like yeah,

[00:45:28] Jonny: the concrete with his garage, with all the guns, it's

[00:45:31] Murray: Where it's like as permanent as it could be until I really needed again, you know? And so I like that, um, not to like talk about like bad stuff of the episode, but did we talk about the chasing yet?

[00:45:41] Are we

[00:45:43] Josh: so That's

[00:45:43] something that I've been reading a lot about. I had no problem with that chase scene. stoke you explained to me what,

[00:45:50] Murray: no. My only my only issue is, and it's, it's so minor. That's why we shouldn't even spend that much time on. It was like there's too much of there's too many straightaways that happen for grown men to not be able to catch her in a few strides. Like it should have instantly been her docking under stuff going through.

[00:46:10] Cause there is a shot or one or two shots. can just tell that the people are not running like at all. And I know they're not trying to hurt her, but they are trying to catch her. And they're just kinda like, do you, like, they're like with your, your nieces or your children, like when you run like slower, like, oh, I'm going to get you.

[00:46:27] It's like, it just looked hokey, but again, it's like, it was like two or three shots.

[00:46:33] Bracey: me, it just felt contrived. It just felt like I didn't believe the motivation for why she took off. I understand what they were sh like structuring there, but it just didn't sell to me. And then, and then, uh, uh, uh, like in the sense of the real danger, that's like, she's clearly in, it felt like that little bit of a sense of danger compared to the, like the like blatant danger that she's been running around.

[00:47:02] I just felt like that those two things, they just didn't give me a well balanced sense of like, the motivation was like they're as solid as,

[00:47:11] as they painted it.

[00:47:12] Josh: But also the other thing about that chasing is that, is that, you know, the job of a chasing, usually in a movie is to act as, uh, a spectacle. This was not a Chasey like that, uh, because,

[00:47:25] Murray: Like, you know, the outcome basically you'd

[00:47:27] Chris: Well, and I think, I think it would have bothered because I agree with what you're saying. I could try and justify why it happened the way it did, but I, but I'm not going to because I've frankly, I think you guys are you're spot on in terms of like, yeah, it was kind of silly. It was kind of goofy. Um, I think it didn't, I would have bothered me if she had gotten away or if that

[00:47:44] Murray: Yeah.

[00:47:44] Yeah. True. Yeah.

[00:47:46] Yup.

[00:47:47] Chris: then the forgone conclusion would have bothered me. But this to me just struck me as sort of a silly

[00:47:52] Jonny: sorry, Chris, did you

[00:47:52] Chris: Okay, this is a silly thing. Star wars does sometimes

[00:47:55] Jonny: with us. Oh,

[00:47:57] Chris: Oh, sorry. Yeah, I paused for a second there. Um, this, this particular chase didn't bother me as much because it was like, all right, there was a lot of good stuff here and they threw in a silly star wars thing, like in return that. I, when like the bridge of the superstar destroyer is blown up and suddenly the ship crashes for some reason, because the moon has the, because the death star has gravity.

[00:48:17] I don't, I don't know. Like there are these stupid things that star wars does sometimes. And I just kind of go, all right, I'm going to shrug it off, especially because again, it didn't have a narrative impact, but I totally appreciate what you're saying there, Marie, and, and Bracey both is like, yeah. all right.

[00:48:33] That was kind of dumb, but there was enough good stuff that I was able to

[00:48:35] Murray: Exactly. Like way, way more good stuff.

[00:48:38] Jonny: I kinda brushed it aside as well. I'm like, this is a little goofy because I, to Marie's point, I think. At least one or two instances where like somebody is running like, oh, it was a branch in my face. I better do an about face and go around

[00:48:51] Murray: Yeah.

[00:48:51] Jonny: it's like, they, they

[00:48:52] Just

[00:48:53] Murray: things like that. Yeah.

[00:48:54] Jonny: But, but that being said, it is a little bit of a missed opportunity in that. Like, um, she's giving them a lot of trouble just because she's running. And I don't think that says a lot about the character, I think, as she like Hayden something that they couldn't see, or they were too big to get into, it would kind of show her like ability to think

[00:49:14] Murray: Or they made,

[00:49:16] Josh: Yeah.

[00:49:16] Yeah,

[00:49:16] Jonny: uh,

[00:49:17] Murray: a thing about her climbing.

[00:49:18] Josh: but that would take too long though. So

[00:49:20] because, because

[00:49:21] Jonny: so, but

[00:49:22] Josh: like, you know how it's going to end,

[00:49:23] Jonny: yeah. Yeah. But, but I think to, to both your point and to Marie's point, like if it's gonna take too long, uh, make it shorter

[00:49:35] Murray: yeah,

[00:49:35] Jonny: the scene itself. Two along because of like what they were showing. Wasn't like something new.

[00:49:43] Murray: Wasn't playing to her

[00:49:44] Jonny: like, this

[00:49:44] is like, like, like you, like you said, Murray after like three or four shots of it.

[00:49:49] And like, it's just like, all right, like grab her now, you know, this type of thing. But like that being said, that's such a minor

[00:49:55] Murray: exactly. It's not even.

[00:49:57] Jonny: know, it's like,

[00:49:58] Bracey: It is, they were, they

[00:49:59] Chris: Yeah, it's worth noticing.

[00:50:00] Bracey: to the, they, I felt like they were working in reverse. Like they know the moment that they wanted is for us to like see that he was struggling with the force and that this was the moment that he finally reconnected with it. Um, and,

[00:50:13] Jonny: oh, oh,

[00:50:14] Murray: Oh, no,

[00:50:14] Jonny: talking about in the we're talking about in the woods, not in the rooftops

[00:50:18] Bracey: oh,

[00:50:19] Jonny: when they capture

[00:50:21] Chris: Oh, no spoilers.

[00:50:22] Bracey: completely

[00:50:23] Jonny: we're talking about when that, when we, and

[00:50:25] Bracey: Oh, I thought it was fun. Yeah. I

[00:50:26] Jonny: yeah. They're, they're running through the trees.

[00:50:28] Murray: yeah, no, it was, there's nothing here. There's nothing wrong with the, I was just sitting there. I was just like, like almost like why, like, if you're not going to do it, like, you know, they, her mom talks about her ability to climb. So if you're just like, not going to incorporate that and she's just going to be running and ducking under like then tree branches, it's like, oh, well, I'm sure you can make it more tension.

[00:50:53] Cause it just seemed like. They weren't actually trying to chase her, but like I said, the most. Yeah. Or just in three more edits you could have had it been fine, but now I'm nitpicking. Just like, I sound like a normal star wars fan

[00:51:06] Chris: No, no, no, no hard disagree because I think this is where we get into no seriously, because I think this is where we get into our, okay. Are we talking about it from a filmmaking standpoint, from a fan standpoint and from a storytelling and a filming standpoint? It's the reason it's, it, it sticks out is because the rest of the storytelling was, was pretty good.

[00:51:23] It was pretty

[00:51:23] tight.

[00:51:24] Murray: Is that good? Yeah. Yup.

[00:51:25] Chris: And so it's weird, but that's a moment that somehow they went, uh, did you, did you catch that? No. I thought you were going to fix that.

[00:51:32] Murray: Yeah.

[00:51:32] Josh: Yeah. yeah, I think, , that's a good place to fully transition over to episode two. I like how these two episodes were shown, , together. Um, because I think, I think it's much more satisfying, a viewing experience, especially after all of the lead up, to kind of have these, these two flavors, you know, from the very beginning. Staying with obiwan and seeing where he at and sort of, you know, seeing the routine and the day in the life. I think the end of the first episode is when obiwan, he, he goes to the spaceport and

[00:52:04] Chris: Yeah, that's

[00:52:04] right.

[00:52:05] Murray: And you see his lightsaber hanging from his

[00:52:08] belt.

[00:52:09] Josh: I mean, that's, that's great. That's a great episode. That's right. That is correct. Now that said, had that been the end of what I was able to watch on Friday or Thursday night or whenever it was. And if this next episode, , was what we're about to see this week, and that was all we got, knowing that Hayden Christiansen he's he's in this, like they're really, laying into, that hard and the promotional material.

[00:52:37] It's like the reuniting of you and McGregor is OB one and eight and Christianson is as Anik and Vader. So like, so like

[00:52:44] Jonny: they're promoting him like he's a CoStar, you

[00:52:46] Josh: Well, so. that's why having seen these two episodes, I realized that like 99% of, of, of what they showed in the promotional material was just from these first two episodes, because that leads me to believe that we're going to see a lot of Vader.

[00:53:01] Chris: yeah,

[00:53:01] Um, um, no, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm really excited that like, because I really don't get me wrong. I thought the OB one looked good from the. But I thought okay, more time on task and it will be done well, but it's more time spent on that to win. And these twists of Ono, we're leaving tattooing and we're doing it pretty quickly.

[00:53:18] And also this isn't all about Luke. We're getting like a lot of layers in here. Um, made me go. Okay. I I'm sure it was intentional. Those red herrings are terrific. And I agree with you, Josh. I think I think we're going to see a lot of Vader, especially given not that we're there yet, but at the end of the

[00:53:32] Murray: so excited.

[00:53:34] Josh: Yes, no, the end of the second episode, like. Yeah. I mean, that's awesome. But, uh, like I said, we aren't there yet, so we start out on day use and able to plan it, which is a pretty cool planet. I mean, it's very sort of blade runner, you know, uh, chorus, Aunty, and I mean, uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

[00:53:49] Chris: Oh, it's a city blended that looks different than correspond, but it's like the second city planet that we've been introduced to apparently.

[00:53:55] Josh: I believe it was inspired by Hong Kong. I think I read

[00:53:57] Murray: I was going to say, yeah, it's

[00:53:58] a.

[00:53:59] Jonny: Yeah.

[00:54:00] Josh: one of the first things we see is the veteran clone

[00:54:03] Murray: Yeah, that was awesome.

[00:54:05] Josh: which I loved for so many reasons. And like, seeing the expression on, on OB Juan's face, like made me realize, like he hasn't seen one of these, these faces in, in 10

[00:54:16] Chris: at PTSD, man that kicked in. I mean, he was having the nightmares in bed, but that look and wait, he freezes up and he sees the clone trooper. Yeah.

[00:54:23] Jonny: And like, he, he, there's a lot that goes across his face and I'm one of those first things is, is this guy going to try and kill me right now? Because he

[00:54:31] Josh: Yes, exactly.

[00:54:32] Chris: A hundred percent. You're absolutely.

[00:54:35] Jonny: And, and I thought, well, this was great. I, I texted this to you after we saw the episode, Josh. But, um, I immediately, after he sees that guy, we see two old school trilogy stormtroopers walk by, and they're talking with normal voices that is not tomorrow Morrison, which is showing the audience the time of the.

[00:54:54] It has gone. And now we are in like standard stock, like individual stormtroopers who are not clones. And I thought that was a good, uh, w what is that? What do you call that? Um,

[00:55:06] Josh: Like a visual

[00:55:08] Jonny: yeah. Like I like, like, yeah, exactly. Like

[00:55:11] Chris: I think the, word you're looking for a SIF SIF.

[00:55:13] Jonny: you go.

[00:55:15] But like, what, what, when when you quickly, when you can quickly convey something through filmmaking, like our storytelling, like, just through like one image is showing a down and out older, uh, drunken clone, trooper who's, who is just completely despondent.

[00:55:30] And then showing like, just two stormtroopers walking by the, uh, there's something of storytelling. I can't think of the word, but, uh, basically they didn't go space wizards. Let's move on from now.

[00:55:40] Josh: Um, so I believe right after this we see a Kumail Nanjiani, his character who, I loved everything about this. I just thought it was so funny, but not only funny, but made so much sense, you know, like it really, contributed to that sense of, uh, by the time of a new hope, like the Jedi or a joke.

[00:55:59] some people's only experience of the Jedi was, was fucking this guy.

[00:56:04] Murray: Yeah. Very true. Yeah.

[00:56:05] Josh: Even though it was like a humorous note, I thought that like what his existence, like, you know, what his whole, position in the story was like, I thought actually spoke a lot to the perception of.

[00:56:19] The Jedi, like how the galaxy is really moving on and for like your average citizen, like they don't oh, you know, it's like, yeah. I mean, I guess that's what a Jedi is or something.

[00:56:30] Chris: Well, it sort of plays into what John was just literally. I know John said we were going to move on from this, but it also goes back to what you were just saying about how much you can tell in a short amount of time, uh, through a storytelling device, which is okay, great. This you've got this fraud. Who's pretending to be a mystic.

[00:56:45] Okay. We get it. Uh, it also really sets us up for hon calling it a hokey religion in.

[00:56:51] Murray: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[00:56:52] Jonny: Yep. Uh, I think it's, I think I was trying to think of economic storytelling or something like

[00:56:56] Josh: oh,

[00:56:57] Jonny: where they go. That's what I was trying to think of.

[00:56:59] Chris: Perfect.

[00:56:59] Murray: If you gave me a million years, played by, come up with that. I wouldn't have done that.

[00:57:04] Chris: I'm nodding sagely and saying, thank you. Like I totally gonna to pull that out

[00:57:07] Murray: Oh yeah, totally. That's what I was going to. That was those.

[00:57:10] I

[00:57:10] Jonny: Yeah.

[00:57:10] Murray: to say,

[00:57:11] Josh: , the other fun thing about this scene is that I do believe it's the first time that obiwan, gets to, take his hand off the brake a little. so when he confronts, that character, I forget his name,

[00:57:22] Chris: it's a Harsha

[00:57:24] Hodgen hotshot. Yeah. H.

[00:57:27] Jonny: you? Gotcha.

[00:57:29] Josh: Oh, you know, like when he confronts him, like, he's, he's able to kind of do the thing a little that he wasn't able to do on Tata Wayne with a guy who, who was stealing the guy's wages or whatever. He can't be like, full mask off, but like, he was able to kind of like,

[00:57:44] let him

[00:57:45] Chris: the old, what we won there

[00:57:47] Murray: Yeah,

[00:57:47] Chris: attitude, there's a smugness and there's also like he doesn't cut straight to it. Right. He kind of messes with Hodjat a little bit. So we see a little bit of like that human part of Kenobi that we always do. We always enjoyed when he was younger.

[00:58:00] Murray: but he's still, also doesn't do anything to set it. Right? Correct. Like they, cause I guess he says, well, they're going to get on the transport. I just made some money off

[00:58:09] of

[00:58:09] Jonny: Yeah.

[00:58:10] I think Hydra actually is helping these people. He's not just stealing. He actually is getting them off planet, but he's taking the money when he does it. So I

[00:58:18] think ABI one's like, well, if he's helping them, I don't have time for this. He has, he has more important fish to fry, you

[00:58:24] Murray: yeah.

[00:58:24] Jonny: I was kinda surprised about how well he fit into the universe. Cause it's like, you know, a famous comedian actor, who's kind of doing his thing, but yet they still kind of carve out a character with him. And, uh, he's not the same dude, but it's kind of like a DJ Benicio Del Toro and less Jedi where it's just like, both of them are like, both of them are like borderline cartoony and their humor, but they still kind of fit the vibe of star wars.

[00:58:52] And I think that comes through when, um, when he's actually confronting Riva towards the end and like the way he's installing her in the alley. And then even the way that he looks at. Shook when she throws up against a wall and leaves him, he, there's no humor in that face when, when she's leaving. And I was like, this is a guy who knows what he's in and he's really like that he's really utilized well.

[00:59:17] And he really performs the part to like the best of his ability within the star wars universe. That's the way I feel that.

[00:59:24] Chris: No. I know. I think that's, I think you put it perfectly, which is he fits, he doesn't take you out of the story. Like some cat, like this wasn't a cameo, but that kind of cameo quote unquote might take you have a story. No, you're right. It's in the universe. Firmly said it was nice.

[00:59:37] Murray: Star wars knows how to use comedians, right? They did with bill BARR also.

[00:59:42] Chris: true. Yeah.

[00:59:42] That's a really good.

[00:59:43] Jonny: well too. Yeah.

[00:59:45] Josh: So then after this first Kumail scene, we go into breaking bad for a second.

[00:59:50] Chris: I'm pretty

[00:59:50] Sure they're just CGI likes, like the people's faces on the breaking bad footage.

[00:59:56] Josh: And then what we want to make a little, distraction and he slips off and he gets into a hand-to-hand fight,

[01:00:01] Murray: Yeah, I

[01:00:02] Josh: this fight. I love that. He He gets hurt. He's like, he's very rusty. So actually something that I wanted to ask. John and, Bracey, do you think, , a decade of not training and not, practicing is enough, , to make you Like that?

[01:00:20] Jonny: yeah,

[01:00:21] Murray: I know it was for them. Um, I was

[01:00:23] Bracey: rusty as hell.

[01:00:24] Murray: Yeah.

[01:00:24] Bracey: he was rusty as hell and, and there's no way I don't care how good you are a decade. Um, of, of not fighting is going to have an effect. You will still have a lot of muscle memory, which he clearly

[01:00:35] Josh: He clearly does.

[01:00:37] Bracey: but

[01:00:37] but I think they played it perfectly. I think they played it pitch perfectly because like, even though all those skills, weren't, weren't at the ready, you know, he, he didn't let himself go.

[01:00:47] He wasn't like he wasn't Thor sitting on a couch for, for 10 years. Like he, he, sorry, sorry for the Marvel reference. But I, uh,

[01:00:55] Chris: How dare you.

[01:00:56] Bracey: I think they, I think they did it right. Great.

[01:00:58] Jonny: uh, and Mary can really talk to this too, because Mary's, you were studying in jujitsu

[01:01:03] Murray: yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I'm, I mean, I made it to, um, really, I made it to purple belt, which is not that easy, but then I had a hernia and then I got married. Then there was a pandemic. So I haven't trained in, uh, I don't probably like three plus years, so I was going and I was going. Four to five times a week, some sometimes.

[01:01:25] Um, so I was really into it. And then if I was to go back now, no one would have to, for the most part, they wouldn't have to remind me of how to do moves. Like I'd still be able to do a triangle. I'd still be able to sweep, but like, my timing would be off. So I would go to say, I go to sweep somebody, but then they're already in the process of passing my Gar, you know, like, because my timing is just off and I'll be too slow for an arm bar, or I won't recognize the choke until the person's like leaving the ground.

[01:01:53] So you're like some of bench, like, so like where he would have all that knowledge and the muscle memory, your but just little things like little interactions and timing would be off. And then you might not think of like, not be thinking as far ahead, it would be more like reaction rather than getting them to like

[01:02:14] Jonny: it's

[01:02:14] Murray: your fight.

[01:02:15] Jonny: with my own experience, it's across the board with everything. Like, uh, when I used to run a cross crunching, we used to run every single day. If you miss a day of practice, the day you go back to practice, it's like twice as hard. Uh, if you, if I don't play my guitar for a couple days and I pick it up, I'm like super sloppy, you know?

[01:02:35] And then like, and I have to get into the groove if I, everything, just whatever you can think of, this is like, if you know how to do it as Murray embracing. You, you know what the muscle memory is? It's not like you forgot how to ride a bike, but like, you won't be doing all the crazy tricks that you used to do the first day you're back on it, but you can, you can get going.

[01:02:56] And then maybe after a couple of days of it, you're like, okay, I'm back up to speed. I can I'm now with it. But like when you get back into it, it's just, it's rough, you

[01:03:05] Murray: Yeah, I would say writing's the same way. You know, like if you have a stretch where you're not working on something, you're like everything. Yeah. I have all the words and it's like, even you might have it all, even like the sentences and paragraphs, like here. And then you're just like, it's like, you're typing with like club feet.

[01:03:19] Like what? Like nothing is coming out. This is all just like garbage. And then, but if you just keep going, like, all right, let's knock all the rust off. And then we'll

[01:03:28] Josh: Yeah. It's like, you've got to get the cobwebs,

[01:03:30] Murray: yeah. Yup.

[01:03:30] Jonny: Michael Kane had a story about that, where he was talking about his, his peers that are his age or older and they're like, oh, you can't just do anything that's offered to you. You have to wait the wait for the right director of the right script in this. And then Michael came was like, fuck that, like you got to work.

[01:03:45] And then he said like, these people will wait and wait and wait and wait. They don't act for like 10 years. And then they get the gig and then they go in front of the camera and be like, I don't know what I'm doing. Cause they haven't acted in 10 years and they have to leave. They have to get back into the swing of things of like, oh, this is how this is my process.

[01:04:00] And yada yada yada,

[01:04:01] Murray: Nick cage. Right. He doesn't stop at all. So every movie he approaches, it could be the worst movie, but he's, he's bringing the same, like attention to it as if it was leaving Las Vegas. And you're like, you're like, no, this is just one where you try to kill your kids. Yeah. Cause he's just always working.

[01:04:17] Josh: I guarantee we're the only star wars podcast covering. There'll be one that that's, referencing Kane and Nick cage. Um,

[01:04:24] Murray: Yeah. And this is, this is why people should listen to this cause, uh,

[01:04:29] Josh: , so then, he has a moment where he confronts, flee

[01:04:32] Jonny: Another breaking bad moment

[01:04:33] where he's like this isn't mess, you

[01:04:35] Josh: yeah, right,

[01:04:36] Murray: yeah, it was weird that he said it was weird. He said, say my name, but yeah, it was a.

[01:04:42] I like the nods too. cause I tend to get fatigued that everything is about the S the Skywalker saga, even like, obiwan like, you're just like, so the fact that you're bringing in like, spice, that was something from the offshoot of solo. And then it was in, um, Booka Boba fat, like, okay, like finally let's get like, there's a whole, like, there are constant talking about there's a whole galaxy out there.

[01:05:05] And like, but we're only going to show you this sliver of one portion of one galaxy, like, fuck, come on. Like, um, and so I like when they're bringing it in spot, you're like, oh shit spice. Yeah. That's a, that's big at this time. And so I liked that a lot.

[01:05:19] Jonny: also, uh, I know I mentioned Ikea before, but I do think that was a cool little nods to like Obi wan Kenobi is a Jedi and Ikea. If anybody knows martial arts is supposed to pick the most defensive, peaceful martial art. And it's, it's like kind of like gentle and flowing and that's, uh, everything he was doing for like take downs and, and tussles were basically like, they look like Ikea moose.

[01:05:42] And I was like, oh, that makes sense. If he was taught a fighting, you know, it would be like a fighting technique. It would probably be something like that. And not like these hard

[01:05:51] Bracey: going to say the exact opposite man, because like, when he'd get like attacked, when he taxed them in the hallway, like he, he doesn't like, he doesn't gracefully, like flow them into one another. He,

[01:06:03] Jonny: well, he is

[01:06:04] Murray: Oh,

[01:06:05] Jonny: he's is punching and up, but we know him, but he's not doing like a, he's not doing like choke holds when he's getting behind him, like go to sleep, going to sleep. Like, he's just like.

[01:06:13] Murray: was like moving on

[01:06:14] Jonny: Yeah. Like he'll like, he'll put his hand behind the guy's head and like spin him and flip him over like, like in a, in a graceful way that like, those techniques are very much of like an IQ, I think.

[01:06:25] But yeah. He's also punching dudes in the face. It's a hybrid. It's not like a

[01:06:29] Murray: Yeah. Cause he also has to survive the fight in his, in his world. This is not like an extra exhibition, like, so

[01:06:35] Jonny: yeah. And you have to put them down,

[01:06:37] Chris: Well also, I

[01:06:38] Bracey: I, I think maybe, and maybe actually that transition that I'm talking about is maybe like when he just first starts out, he elbows the guy in the head before and then, and then he gets his ass kicked and he's like, oh yeah, maybe I got to do something

[01:06:50] Chris: because I

[01:06:51] Bracey: like, maybe I gotta go to the

[01:06:53] Chris: I

[01:06:53] Jonny: could be, he has to go back to that muscle memory a little bit, you know?

[01:06:57] Chris: the other stuff used to work when he augment it with the forest. He's not doing that anymore. So some of the things he used to do that worked where he could sort of like give them an extra little nudge with the forest or something.

[01:07:09] He doesn't work anymore.

[01:07:11] So now they're not staying down.

[01:07:12] Jonny: He can't punch them like Superman, if he has no force behind him.

[01:07:16] Josh: I kept thinking about the fight and attack of the clones, where he liked headbutts Jango Fett. who's like wearing like a Mandalorian helmet and I'm like,

[01:07:26] Jonny: I know. It's like, what are you doing?

[01:07:29] Josh: no, but that actually makes a lot of sense. Like if, yes, it is hand to hand, but it's sort of augmented with the force a little bit.

[01:07:36] Jonny: yeah, he's like leaping through the air doing like flying Lou Kang kicks from moral combat. Like he's doing crazy shit. And second the cleanse

[01:07:43] Josh: So then, he jailbreaks Leah and like we started to talk about, I love the interaction between them.

[01:07:49] Jonny: that's what she hit him, like immediately when he

[01:07:51] Chris: without Lola and she just smacks the crap out of them and goes to leave.

[01:07:56] Josh: Yeah, no, it's great. It's like so much who you imagine, Carrie Fisher as princess Leia was as a child. It's like, and I think somebody said it, I think maybe it was you Chris. I never realized how much I wanted to see a story between obiwan and Leah.

[01:08:13] Murray: Bracey maybe or no? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:16] Chris: No, no, no, no, no. It was Marie Marie brought it up. I just happened to agree with it. I had, I had it in my nose, but, but Marine beat me there. This idea of like, why would, why would she be saying you're Obi wan Kenobi. You're my only hope to trust him. And this is how we know now. It's, it's not just that she served, he served you're my father and the clone wars.

[01:08:34] It's not just that it's it's that they actually do have a relationship and OB one is willing to make the move. Instead of doing the thing where he trains Luke, he goes, okay, Um, we're going to go help lay out. Yeah, I'll train Luke too, but we're going to go, go help. Lay out.

[01:08:49] Josh: One thing I did, find really interesting.

[01:08:51] Was that, you know, when the inquisitors find out that, , Riva has, , had Layah kidnapped, it seems to be a problem that, she kidnapped an Imperial senators child, right? , so this idea that like, , the empire isn't yet able , to operate with complete impunity, they need to maintain the fiction that, you know, the Senate still means something and that, the senators, still have some, position of authority.

[01:09:24] So

[01:09:25] Chris: can still deal and done by the Senate at this time.

[01:09:27] Josh: Yes. Exactly. So, so this idea that she kidnapped a senator's daughter, just of her own accord. I thought was an interesting little detail that, you know, you don't really think about, , because of what we know of the empire. They have this whole scene in the original star wars, , that scene where, , Tarkin walks in and he announces the emperor has dissolved the Senate.

[01:09:48] Right? that is a moment where, okay, now we have the death star and we don't have to play this game anymore.

[01:09:54] Jonny: I think that's a good contrast to we, we skipped over it in the first episode, but like the consequences of going to tattooing and stirring up shit and going to all the runners stirring up shit, because it's all

[01:10:05] Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah, no.

[01:10:06] Jonny: clan. Duvetyne like we got to send in flea and his scumbags to kidnap Leah.

[01:10:11] And no, one's going to know that the empire did it and like, yada, yada, yada, it's gotta be very secret. But in tattooing they just show up like, Hey, where are the empire? Where is everyone I'm chopping off your arm? I want to threaten your life. And then they, when they threatened Owen, like not all, I mean, like you really get the impression that Owen isn't just being super cautious.

[01:10:32] He has to, and like, oh, and was willing to die on the spot right there to protect them. And I thought like that it was a really good character moment for him to show like the balls that he has. But also just to show that like, there's a reason why it looks like the sole shelter is because it's real doggy dog and tattooing.

[01:10:49] So yeah, like tattooing's is backwater planet. No one gives a shit about, but with all the rain, like you said, the repercussions of doing that shit is immense. You know,

[01:10:59] Josh: Yeah. I got to move on, but I really want to go to that, scene , we're obiwan and layout, have found a way off the planet and, , Reva's on their trail and they're sort of playing cat and mouse. And Riva says , she's not going to kill obiwan , she's going to bring him to him, Lord Vader and then obiwan realizes and rebar realizes that he didn't know that Aneca and, didn't die on

[01:11:26] Murray: Well, he knows that he's Vader, right. Because of seeing that he saw that hologram when he gets knighted or whatever, but, um, okay. So

[01:11:35] Jonny: But she also, she can call us by name too. She says you

[01:11:38] Murray: no, I know, but like, yeah, he had, um, realization when she said Vader and he was like,

[01:11:46] Josh: Some people are wondering how Riva knows that Annika Skywalker is Vader. And I think going to see in the flashback, uh, potentially I think she sees Anacon as Vader,

[01:11:56] Jonny: yeah. He's there killing people

[01:11:59] Josh: yeah, yeah.

[01:12:00] So, so I think we're going to see her see him, leading the clones in the

[01:12:05] Murray: uh, yeah, I was wondering if she knew, because almost like, um, Vader said, like to tell obiwan that I'm still alive,

[01:12:16] Jonny: uh, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all the inquisitors are basically like extra Jedi for the most part. Right?

[01:12:23] Chris: Uh, yeah. Yeah. A lot

[01:12:24] of them.

[01:12:25] Jonny: they, they, if they are, then they know who anagen is. They know who Vader is because they S they survived it. They switched sides too.

[01:12:32] Chris: I'll be, I'll be curious to find out because I, and again, this is like really sort of going off on not a tangent, but like, do you really kind of count it, but, uh, but one of my favorite characters for a, for a while now has been, has been targeted. And, uh, and So

[01:12:47] I read the book cause I was like, Yeah.

[01:12:49] it's short.

[01:12:50] It's a couple of bucks on, on that was on prime, whatever, uh, on Kendall. So I read it and even Tarkin is not at it at that point is not sure. He's confident that Vader was an akin and the emperor forces the two of them to work together. Um,

[01:13:06] because he needs both of them to get along. They may not have to like each other, but they need to get along, but anagen in, in clone wars and akin and, and target and work together a bunch of times.

[01:13:15] And so even Tarkin in the book again, like is pretty confident that mannequin is Vader, but he's not certain. So this, this a little bit here. Well, it kind of rubbed me. I don't want to say the wrong way, but it bothered me a little bit because now I'm kind of curious because, uh, how many, how many people know Vader Zanuck and if it's limited to just the inquisitors and OB one now, and, and the emperor, then, then cool.

[01:13:42] But just how widespread is this knowledge that anagen had become Vader and it's not just that he was executed in order 66 and then Vader came in with the emperor. So I'm not going to say I disliked it or anything. It just, it bothered me a little bit that I was thinking, oh, this is a very closely held secret.

[01:13:58] Wait a minute.

[01:13:59] Jonny: it could be,

[01:14:00] Chris: this.

[01:14:01] Jonny: it could be one of those things that could foreshadow that she might actually have a much closer relationship to Vader than everyone else.

[01:14:08] Josh: I think she does.

[01:14:09] Jonny: She probably, she could be like a makeshift new apprentice for.

[01:14:14] Josh: yes. So you, because, the things they say about him or this about her are the same things that, all the Jedi were saying about Anacon, it's like, you're impulsive.

[01:14:23] You're, you're reckless. It's like, you know, you're this

[01:14:25] Jonny: it's

[01:14:25] Chris: She also doesn't have the same complexion as the other Inquisitor's so whatever's going on there? Like the inquisitors they have like an effect, like the, the like bleached skin kind of thing. And she does not have that,

[01:14:38] that

[01:14:38] same look that I think, cause we see three inquisitors besides her and they all have like, like very, not, not white, but like white

[01:14:47] Murray: no, it's like pal. Yeah. Like.

[01:14:49] Josh: Yeah, I do think that they have more of a relationship than we know about, which I'm confident we're going to learn more about,

[01:14:55] Jonny: Of course,

[01:14:56] Josh: I can't say enough about the look on you and McGregor's face when he realizes that Anik and is alive and that shot of his face.

[01:15:03] They do this like brutal, Jumpcut it's like a tight shot on OB Juan's face where he says, anagen and his eyes are kind of welling up. it's a hard cut, right to Hayden as Vader

[01:15:14] Jonny: he looks fucked up.

[01:15:16] Josh: Yeah,

[01:15:17] Murray: He

[01:15:17] Jonny: does not look good

[01:15:18] Josh: yeah, and I think this is going to be a lot more Vader and probably Aniket like, I think we're going to see him

[01:15:25] Murray: Well, they, they can have scenes together, right. Because in a new hope, all they say is that it's been a long time. It doesn't say that the last time you saw me, you left me for dead.

[01:15:36] So 10 years is a long time. So if they see, yeah.

[01:15:40] Josh: And the other thing also is that, it kind of gives a new valence to Vader's line and return of the Jedi when he tells Luke that OB one once thought, as you do, in other words, one time obiwan tried to bring me to the light side again, and that shit

[01:15:54] Chris: That's a really

[01:15:55] Josh: not work.

[01:15:56] So, so yeah, so, so, so we never actually saw that. I think so when they also showed, I believe they showed this in the flashback,

[01:16:06] Chris: did where she says there's she said, there's good in him. I know where

[01:16:10] Josh: Yes, yes. So, so, so I think a part of what we're going to see is I, so because, so we didn't realize that obiwan did not know that Anik and survived, so, so he's only now, finding that out.

[01:16:23] So I think when he sees him, the first thing he's gonna do is he's, he's, he's going to try to appeal to the Anaconda that is still in there and it's not going to work.

[01:16:34] Jonny: Nope.

[01:16:34] Chris: One more failure on his resume,

[01:16:36] Josh: Yeah.

[01:16:37] Chris: which also would explain why he, he, when he, when he says he's more machine now, the men twisted and evil.

[01:16:43] It's not just what happened in the

[01:16:44] pre-bills. he is disappointed And he says, and the reason he's saying it is because he doesn't want Luke to try and make the same mistake he did, which was it's too late.

[01:16:54] Vader is already it's Vader. It's not Anacon. And skin's gone. Don't waste your time, you know, because I did.

[01:17:02] Josh: exactly. And the reason he can be so sure is because of what we're about to see.

[01:17:06] Murray: Yeah,

[01:17:07] I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I'm also like, not to shit on George Lucas, but like, I'm excited to like give these two guys their day with like, uh, like directors and writers that care about acting and performance and how it comes across rather than just say this, because I want to show this technology and tell the story.

[01:17:28] So like, I think even by myself, they got such a bum rap and it's just like, no, let these guys like stretch their legs, let them do their thing. And let's see what we, uh,

[01:17:37] Chris: we're we're

[01:17:38] Murray: got the role for a reason. Right. They, you know, and it just like, we never got to see why.

[01:17:43] Chris: and

[01:17:43] we're going to get to see these actors stretch their legs. You're right. But also I'm excited to see some more history between these characters, because that was again, like, I, it took me a long time to get to clone wars. Cause I didn't like the animation. But I really grew to enjoy the storylines because Anna can made.

[01:17:59] And Josh, you said this when we were in our, our, uh, you know, is Vader redeemable, or is he redeemed episode of a secret origins? Um, you know, you were like, you know, I, I mentioned something along the lines of, you know, we got to see more of the relationship in the clone wars cartoon, and you're like, yeah, that's kind of red Connie and you're right.

[01:18:15] And you're right. It totally is right Connie. It's still in my mind, much more compelling storytelling and really, really shows the brotherhood between them that I think we get ripped off of movies.

[01:18:31] Josh: Yeah, no, I agree. And , I'm, I'm really excited. Like once I realized that, all the promotional materials showed stuff from these first two episodes, I have no idea what, we're about to see in these next four

[01:18:43] Murray: Oh, uh, question thing prisoner do we think that he's like gone, gone spoiler alert?

[01:18:48] No,

[01:18:48] Right.

[01:18:49] Okay.

[01:18:50] Josh: no,

[01:18:50] Murray: don't know

[01:18:50] if he

[01:18:51] makes

[01:18:51] Josh: in rebel.

[01:18:52] Jonny: He's

[01:18:52] alive in the sh in the show. But I also think too that, um, uh, they might not put too much stock into this, but there is also another video game where there's a main, bad guy is a female inquisitor. And by the end of the, uh, the end of the game, she kind of turns good and fader kills her spoiler.

[01:19:10] Uh, so I feel like they're not going to do that again, but I wouldn't be surprised if, uh, the grand inquisitor comes back to give, to pay her a lesson,

[01:19:21] Murray: Yeah. Well, the only,

[01:19:23] Jonny: for her insulin. So

[01:19:24] Murray: yeah, the only reason why I ask is because I didn't watch the cartoons and then I was talking to someone and they said like, oh, because the inquisitor died, then they just fucked up Canon. And I was like, yeah, they're not going

[01:19:36] Chris: No,

[01:19:36] that's

[01:19:36] Jonny: yeah, no, not going to

[01:19:38] do

[01:19:38] Murray: Yeah.

[01:19:39] Chris: that's not a mistake. They're going to

[01:19:40] make.

[01:19:40] Murray: no, exactly.

[01:19:41] And it's just like, and again, a lot of it got pointed at, um, Kennedy and it's like, well, she's got a very, very impressive resume and she's not going to fuck with the entirety of this hour's cannon, just to

[01:19:53] Jonny: Why, why did they frog leap day Filoni and go straight to Kennedy?

[01:19:57] You

[01:19:57] Josh: I think we, I think we

[01:19:58] Chris: Wait, wait.

[01:19:58] Murray: yeah,

[01:19:59] Jonny: this is a rhetorical question. This is a

[01:20:01] rhetorical question. you know, but it's just like the guy who's in charge of all the cartoons is like, yeah, totally. Like, uh,

[01:20:08] obviously he would, you know,

[01:20:10] Josh: not to get into spoiler territory too much, but, the star wars celebration just wrapped up and they showed some footage of the soca show and it seems like they were about, to canonize a lot of what happened in the rebels cartoon in live action.

[01:20:21] Jonny: oh yeah, I heard they cast like a new character, like Sabine who's in the cartoon or

[01:20:25] something

[01:20:25] Chris: yeah.

[01:20:26] Josh: um,

[01:20:27] Jonny: Yeah.

[01:20:27] Josh: any closing thoughts before episode three.

[01:20:30] Murray: I loved it. And I thought it was cool to see that the force is something that could be lost if it's not exercised, like your connection to it. I thought that was really interesting. Um, Because you would just think of either like you have it or you don't or something like that. But to know that if you don't, it's just like any other skill, even though it's like semi faith-based, you know, like, like any other skill, if you don't use it, you lose it type thing.

[01:20:55] I thought that

[01:20:55] Josh: Semi faith-based. But also it's like faith in yourself though.

[01:20:59] Murray: No it's yeah. It's got like every, like almost the it's like psychological it's faith it's skill. It's like everything. It's one big giant force. Oh fuck. I

[01:21:09] Jonny: oh shit. I, I loved it. I can't wait to see what happens next. I also love, we didn't talk about this before, but I think one of my favorite things about it is that this movie kind of feels like episode 3.5

[01:21:21] in a book, but they do these things where they have the blue texts a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

[01:21:27] And then at the end, it's the traditional blue text over our star scape. And they didn't do that with a Mandalorian or book of Boba Fett. They had like the concept art to show you that it was different. And this is reminding you that like, this is part of like, this is closer to the movies than the other shows are trying to be.

[01:21:44] And this really, and this really does feel like, uh, what it is going to amount to be like a three hour movie, because every episode is like a half-hour long. So it's like, we could actually watch this all together as probably like one long three hour movie. And like, and I can't wait to see how it all,

[01:22:00] Josh: And then Andorra

[01:22:01] Jonny: But I just, I like how they're just pushing, like, this is kind of like a long movie, you

[01:22:07] Murray: yeah,

[01:22:08] Jonny: because the

[01:22:08] Murray: going to be

[01:22:08] Jonny: feels like it

[01:22:09] Josh: any closing thoughts, Chris or Bracey.

[01:22:11] Chris: Yeah.

[01:22:12] I, I just, I, I don't think I realized it because I, I'm not a fan of the brick walls. I went back to rewatch them because a, of a game I play called star wars Armada, and I was testing some of the ships from the clone wars factions. So I was like, oh, I should know what some of these things should be doing or what they should feel like.

[01:22:28] And I still don't really like them that much. And, you know, uh, but because I don't really like them that much, I didn't realize until watching Obi wan Kenobi that I miss C. Ewan McGregor as Obi wan Kenobi. So it was, it was nice to see him in that role again. And I'm man, I'm just here for lay and Jimmy Smith's, I'm real, I'm real excited about the direction this year.

[01:22:50] I was looking forward to between the inquisitors, but, um, man, they're, they're really, they're going all out in terms of really exploring some, some history that, um, that, that I didn't think we'd ever get outside of maybe some fan fiction or some stories. So, um, I'm looking forward to it.

[01:23:07] Murray: Yeah.

[01:23:08] Bracey: I, I say my closing thoughts on this as, uh, it really, it really sets up the rest of the, uh, the series really well. Um, Um, I'm excited. I think it, it hints at the direction that Disney has been looking at the star wars franchise for a little bit as like, first of all, they're there, like the timing is perfect.

[01:23:29] We hit this period of time and all the cast is like, all the cast from the prequels is exactly The right age for us. It's all this, these stories one also what they, what they started to do with Mandalorian, this dynamic of like, like the old bringing in the new, even though that wasn't the character like a character that we knew before this dynamic of, of seeing the older character playing like a shepherding in the younger character into this, in this day and age, I feel like this is like, if we watched.

[01:24:04] Uh, actress of, of princess Leia, um, continue on, like, I think a lot of people will be on board to continue to see her play this role, the same way that we are watching your and McGregor Gregor continue to play this role. And I think we'll watch you in McGregor all the way up until the we're watching the remake of star wars, because, and I think that's really where I bet you, this is a, has been talked about and on the docket in the future, because like, why would they not, if they need to

[01:24:34] Josh: I can't see

[01:24:36] Murray: I can't think of anything failing harder than remaking

[01:24:40] the

[01:24:40] Bracey: don't think you understand

[01:24:42] Josh: No, no, no,

[01:24:43] Murray: no, I feel I fully am aware.

[01:24:46] Josh: no. I am with you. I am with you I'm with you because I hear the way that a lot of younger fans talk about the original movies.

[01:24:53] Chris: Yeah.

[01:24:53] Bracey: Yeah.

[01:24:54] Josh: so, so I agree with you. I just don't know. as long as Kathleen Kennedy is running Lucasfilm, I don't think She would

[01:25:01] Jonny: Yeah.

[01:25:01] Josh: for that.

[01:25:02] Jonny: And

[01:25:03] Josh: I think

[01:25:03] maybe we're talking about the next yeah.

[01:25:06] Bracey: yeah, no, but I'm saying like you

[01:25:08] play this out 10 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Where, when would these kids, when would the, the princess layer, uh, end up being the age of princess Leia, and then I think there you, there, you have it.

[01:25:20] Josh: okay. On that note, I am really psyched for the next episode and, um, I hope you guys will join us

[01:25:26] we will see you on the next one.

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